Ep 18: Wedding Planning, Five Brothers and Friendship Breakups: an Interview with Megan

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I love that you love dogs and I love dogs

and we both pet sit and it's awesome.

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I think that's so cool.

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What a common ground and

who doesn't love dogs?

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My two little sausage dogs are so cute.

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They're so cute.

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They're my babies.

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How old are they?

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Six and four.

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Oh my goodness.

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I can't believe it.

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It makes me sad.

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Just in the blink of an eye too.

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It does.

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I got my golden as a

puppy and he's now eight.

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I'm like, how did that happen?

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I put a collage together

the other day of my dog.

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She's becoming so gray.

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And that moment I was sad and I

was like, what a privilege it is to

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watch them grow old, it's so true.

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Yeah.

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I remember seeing something online too,

where they said, take your dogs out and

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enjoy it because they only have a limited

amount of summers and they spend them

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all with you And I was like don't make

me cry Why are you doing this to me?

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My and like when you're walking a

dog when they're sniffing let them

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sniff because it gives them so much

Serotonin and they only have so many

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walks and oh, yes, that's so true.

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Be present.

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Yeah.

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Important question, do

you dress your dogs up?

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Because I do.

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I sometimes do.

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She has some Halloween costumes.

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Nice.

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They're very good.

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What's your favorite outfit for your dogs?

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If we're going with Halloween costumes,

I have the UPS delivery person costume.

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That's so good.

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Which is hilarious.

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And the pirate costume,

which makes me laugh.

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Oh, they don't like the hats,

but it makes me chuckle.

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It's always a hat.

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Anything else will tolerate.

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My dogs have an Instagram.

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Oh my gosh, why am I not following it?

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I'm just relying on the personal page.

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I know.

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Oh.

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Screw the humans, let's see

the four legged awesome babies.

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The good stuff, get to the gold, yeah.

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I have like fancy coats for my dog.

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Yeah.

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Like in the winter, especially because

the snow just gets in her fur and she's

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soaked, so like, why not cover her up?

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Oh yeah, that's so sweet.

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Yeah.

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Double purpose.

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When we're not trying to please

our animals, we're also pleasing

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people and that's what we're

here to talk about today.

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I don't mind being a doggie pleaser.

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Yeah.

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Cause they're just there

for you, but goes both ways.

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As far as humans go, yeah, that's

what we're going to dive into today.

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How about you tell us a

little bit about yourself?

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My name is Megan.

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I obviously have two dogs.

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I have a golden and a

chow lab mix named Keela.

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And I live with my partner,

Michael of almost five years.

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Awesome.

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Yeah.

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We have an orange and yellow

kitchen, which I think is something

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that speaks very loudly about

me of who I am as a person.

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Just cause it's so fun.

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Yeah.

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Life is too short not to have fun.

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I have five brothers and a lot and I'm

tting married in September of: 2025

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Yeah.

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Congratulations.

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Which is mostly what I, like, when I

saw your Instagram post, it was what I

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was like, Oh, I, this is what I have.

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Cause it's just been on my mind,

this entire process of planning.

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Wow.

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I also work weddings too.

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So I work for like a photo booth.

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Oh, gotcha.

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So you see all different kinds of things.

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I'm sure.

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Oh, absolutely.

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And I think you see what you

do and don't want when you're

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planning your own wedding, too.

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah, so definitely gave me like

the inside scoop going from behind

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the curtain, yeah, exactly.

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Yeah.

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Jumping from there, you already

hinted at what brought you here today.

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You're talking about your connection

with people pleasing in your wedding.

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How what's going on?

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I Think that with any wedding

you find people just want to have

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their own opinions about your day

Which is so interesting to me.

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They just push their opinions on you . My

mom I'm the youngest of those five boys,

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so I'm the only girl . For her, it was her

dream to just have me have the big wedding

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and do all the things and that just,

I'm very introverted in a sense where I

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don't like to be the center of attention.

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My partner doesn't really either.

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So we decided early on if we were going

to have a wedding, it'd be very small.

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With my mom, so grateful, love her

to death, mom, if you're listening.

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But I think she had to grieve that a

little bit, like that process of grieving.

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Just realizing that the child that you've

raised, isn't the person that you expected

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them to be and being okay with that.

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I think that was definitely a process

for her, but in trying to people

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please her, I was like, Why don't

I have the wedding that I want?

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I'll also give her the wedding

that she wants cause she was very

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upset about it and kept having

these conversations with me.

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So to please her, I went down to Pearl

street, which I love Pearl street so much.

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And we did the quote, we did the

walkthrough, the tour, everything

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picked out, like the plan that I

would do for my wedding and It came

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to be about 8, 000, which is crazy.

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And that's like the low

end of weddings nowadays.

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Which blows my mind.

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It's crazy.

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It's none of it makes sense.

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After this whole walkthrough,

I really had to sit down with

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myself and say, what do I want?

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What does my partner want?

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What do I want?

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And why are we doing this?

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Wow.

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That's really good because I

don't think people, a lot of times

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are mindful during that process.

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Oh, absolutely.

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I think, especially with people pleasing,

someone will ask you something to do

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something and right away you just want

to tell them yes or give them an answer.

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And I think stepping back really helps

to evaluate who are you doing this for?

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It's like the first question

you should ask yourself.

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Does it align with the

person that you want to be?

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Yeah.

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Power therapy.

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And then side note with that too.

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I think if you've been people

pleasing for so long, when you

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ask yourself, what do I want?

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I think that's a hard question because you

don't know what you want because you've

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wanted what other people have wanted.

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Absolutely the entire time.

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So it sounds simple, but that

actually can be somewhat of an

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uncomfortable, painful process at first.

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Absolutely.

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I think also with a lot of people

pleasing, I get so in my head about it.

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With anxiety, I'm always thinking about

upsetting people, or having them be

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upset with me, and what is their reaction

going to be if I set this boundary?

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And I think it's really helpful to take

myself out of that because half of the

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time, it's not what you're expecting.

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I saw this meme and it was a

list of things I worried about

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that, they ended up being fine.

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So you worry about so much and you worry

about people's expectations of you.

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Even if they're upset, if they

loved you and they want the best

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for you, they would understand.

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And I think that's something

definitely to remind yourself of.

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to add on to that I always remind myself-

everyone is their own sovereign being.

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They have their own

emotional guidance system.

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They have their own ability to

emotionally regulate themselves.

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So it's not my job to manage someone's

emotions, to regulate it for them.

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And then that's self

centered in a way too.

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Who am I to say how they should feel if

I want to get philosophical with it,

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sometimes you have to get uncomfortable to

grow and change and learn about yourself.

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So maybe I'm supposed to be the one

who says this to someone to trigger

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a thought or an emotion to then bring

something to the surface for them to heal.

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Yeah.

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And have growth themselves.

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Yeah, at least that's what I

tell myself when I start to

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try to spiral anxiety- wise.

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Oh, for sure.

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We're all adults, and I think that, like

you said, we're all going through our own

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journey and we all have our own guidance

and rules that we make for ourselves and

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our own emotions, and you can't control

how somebody else reacts, but you can

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control how you react to that situation.

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Is there a moment in your life where you

realized you were people pleasing or is

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it just something that happened gradually?

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I think it was burnout.

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I think I was working like four

jobs at one point and it was

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just getting to be too much.

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It got to a point where it was

like, is the money worth it?

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Am I putting myself first?

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And then, Oh, am I letting these

people down by saying that I can't do

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this role at this position anymore?

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And I think that I was like, Oh, I'm

people pleasing this entire time.

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And I'm doing this to make other

people happy when I'm miserable

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and I'm suffering from this.

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there was definitely a moment

I was sitting on my couch.

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I was sobbing.

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And my partner he said to

me, why are you doing this?

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What are you doing this for?

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And I really didn't have a good

answer because it wasn't for me.

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That was when I started

putting myself first.

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And I knew with this whole

wedding situation, I was going

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to have to put myself first too.

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How did you feel about that when

it first started the process then?

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Interesting.

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Cause it felt like I

was going into a battle.

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Yeah.

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How so?

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I had to prepare myself for, especially

my mom, just to really , guard my heart.

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I would say just to not let anything get

to me and to realize where she was coming

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from, to understand her thought process

in everything that she had dreamed of.

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I also think with having a small wedding,

there's a lot of people pleasing.

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We're doing a five hours

away in the Adirondacks

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and we've gotten a lot of backlash about

that, like people who aren't invited.

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People will ask me straight up,

can I be invited to your wedding?

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Wow.

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Really?

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I know.

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I know.

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And that takes some nerve.

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That is like the opposite of people.

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A people pleaser would

be like, Oh, it's okay.

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Saying no is the hardest

thing for a people pleaser.

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Yeah.

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I just don't want to make anybody upset.

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How do you handle it when someone tries to

insert themselves into your wedding plans?

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Even the invite list,

not even the planning.

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I really just reassure Oh, we're

having a very small wedding.

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We already have the guest list.

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We would love to celebrate

with you another time.

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Perfect.

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Did you plan ahead of time of

what you were going to say to

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people or did someone hit you?

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That's definitely the anxiety part.

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I had to think of everything that

someone would say to me and what I

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would respond back, which is, It's so

tiring to be in your own head, it is.

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So you mentioned about the guest list.

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Yeah.

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And people inviting themselves.

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How about your wedding?

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You said it's distance.

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You're traveling there.

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Is it a kids free wedding or?

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Yeah, and I think that's been

one of the biggest struggles too.

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That's a whole other I feel

like power lifting of people

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pleasing recovery right there.

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Yeah Dealing with what you're

dealing with this wedding Especially

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if you're having to tell people

that their kids aren't invited.

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You are in the people

pleaser recovery Olympics.

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I'm in the trenches.

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You are.

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this is like a triathlon here.

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How do you handle the kid thing?

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I think it's the hardest part of

this whole situation other than

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really advocating for a small wedding

which that plays into no kids.

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When I, obviously, I think I mentioned

I work weddings for my brother's company

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Seeing things that I didn't want and

children was a thing that I didn't want.

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Just because in my perspective there's

nothing for kids to do at a wedding.

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They get bored.

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They get restless.

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They get, just crazy.

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Yeah.

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And we're having a three

night, four day wedding.

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And I think that's especially

another layer of how hard it's been.

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It's definitely upsetting for some people

and that's obviously not our intention.

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We just really want to handpick

the people that we want to choose

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to be there on our special day.

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Yeah.

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But it was in our heads.

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It was one or none.

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You have to have all or none.

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Is a better way to put it.

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You're always going to

hurt somebody's feelings.

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So how did you literally handle it?

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What did you say to people?

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And then what did you do within

yourself to manage the tension that

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arose when you disappointed someone?

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It's probably the same way that

I put it where people would

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try to invite themselves to our

wedding of I love your kids.

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I love them.

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They're a part of our family

and I do want to celebrate them.

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I just don't think that this is the

place to celebrate and celebrate

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at a different time to give them

another option and to compromise.

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Compromising is a huge thing with

people pleasing and being a good person.

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And yeah, like you said, you

can still do good things and

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compromise and meet in the middle.

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To really help myself gear up for that.

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Really reminding myself, I have

to pull myself out of my own head.

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These people may be upset, they

have their own emotions, they have

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a right to their own emotions.

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How do I react to that?

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It's reminding myself that

we'll only be married once.

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This is the event that we want.

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And Just thinking about

what the end result will be.

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Will I be happy if I compromise on this?

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That's huge.

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Do you journal this or do you literally

think about it or talk it out loud?

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Thinking about it helps.

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I only really journal when it's like

big things in my life, but I think

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I need to start a little bit more.

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Getting that out is so important.

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I was talking in therapy about, it was

my wrists, I was talking about my wrists

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of how they bother me sometimes and my

therapist was like, just say it out loud.

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Oh, I'm really focusing on my wrist today.

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And I did that and I was like,

Oh, it's so nice to just not be

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stuck in your own head anymore.

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it's such a silly little thing that you

wouldn't think about, but it's so free.

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Maybe this isn't a healthy thing, but

I always think about I go worst case.

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I'm like what happens if I forget this

reminder and I don't do this if I'm

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going to be okay Will life move on?

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Will I live?

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I will be fine Will it maybe suck to

have to deal with the consequences?

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Maybe but Same with people pleasing.

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If I say this to this person,

they get really pissed off.

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Am I going to survive it?

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I've survived every other

hard conversation I've had.

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So exactly.

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Yeah.

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Do I want drama?

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No.

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Do I expect it?

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I hope not, but exactly.

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Hope that we can all be adults,

if that problem arises, how

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are we going to deal with it?

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And the sun will rise again tomorrow.

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Yeah, that's always helpful.

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If something goes wrong and somebody's

upset, it'll be okay in the end.

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Sometimes with that, I'll

do like a giant zoom out.

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I will zoom out all the

way into outer space.

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Sometimes it helps to look at a

picture of earth being this tiny

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dot in the middle of the universe.

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And you're like, this

literally doesn't matter.

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It doesn't matter.

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We're all these tiny people on a big

rock in space, . None of this matters.

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Yeah, in five years will matter

in five months and five weeks.

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Yeah, exactly and not in a

pessimistic way No way exactly.

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Why is this such a big deal?

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Yeah life is so short for things to be

such a big deal .You have to keep moving.

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It's always growth.

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It's always progress and

we're always learning,

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The other day I was at breakfast

with my parents and I was talking

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about the podcast launch party.

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And then I'm also, I don't

know why I did this to myself.

337

: 00:14:35

I'm launching a podcast.

338

: 00:14:37

And then two weeks later, I'm doing

my first weekend long Reiki retreat.

339

: 00:14:41

Like, why am I, what am I doing?

340

: 00:14:44

But I was talking through my

process in my mind about stages

341

: 00:14:47

of planning for all of this.

342

: 00:14:48

And then I was talking about,

okay, but if this goes wrong,

343

: 00:14:51

then I got this to back it up.

344

: 00:14:53

And then I thought about this scenario

and I have to tell myself that if no one

345

: 00:14:57

comes to the launch party, I'll be fine.

346

: 00:14:59

And if this many people come, I

have to manage my emotions.

347

: 00:15:02

And my dad just looked at

me and I was like, what?

348

: 00:15:04

What you don't think like this

dad and he's no, he looked

349

: 00:15:07

like a deer in headlights.

350

: 00:15:09

Yeah.

351

: 00:15:09

Almost like I was a little crazy and I

was like, welcome to inside my brain.

352

: 00:15:13

Welcome.

353

: 00:15:13

It's so interesting that people

who don't experience anxiety.

354

: 00:15:17

All right.

355

: 00:15:18

My partner, I'll be like, Oh, do you

know what we're doing for Thanksgiving?

356

: 00:15:22

And he was like, I'm not planning

for the end of the week yet.

357

: 00:15:25

What are you doing?

358

: 00:15:26

And I'm just so inside my head, I have

to know what's going on at all times.

359

: 00:15:29

Yeah.

360

: 00:15:29

And just spiraling that way.

361

: 00:15:31

But yeah, it's so interesting where

people just don't think of every

362

: 00:15:33

avenue and they're in the present.

363

: 00:15:36

I would love, I'm trying

to be more in the present.

364

: 00:15:38

That's something I'm working towards.

365

: 00:15:40

Meditation has really helped me.

366

: 00:15:42

I definitely, I love meditation.

367

: 00:15:44

Yeah.

368

: 00:15:44

Like consistently I know it sounds

weird, but I can tell that it's

369

: 00:15:48

rewired my brain because I don't have

patterns like I used to, or if they

370

: 00:15:53

rear their ugly head, I can sense it.

371

: 00:15:56

Whereas before it was just how I was.

372

: 00:15:58

Yeah.

373

: 00:15:59

So I don't know if that's better

or worse because now I can like

374

: 00:16:01

really tell what I'm anxious.

375

: 00:16:04

Whereas before it was just

a constant state of being.

376

: 00:16:05

It just happened.

377

: 00:16:06

Yeah.

378

: 00:16:06

So now I think it feels worse when I get

anxiety because then I'm like, damn,

379

: 00:16:10

I know it doesn't have to be this way.

380

: 00:16:12

Do you stop yourself and then meditate

as you're starting to feel that?

381

: 00:16:16

Sometimes or breath work or just

bringing myself into the present moment.

382

: 00:16:21

Using my five senses, just

make myself empty my brain and

383

: 00:16:24

just observe without labeling.

384

: 00:16:26

That's a big one from Eckhart Tolle

taught me that in the power of now.

385

: 00:16:31

I remember doing this for the

first time and I remember sobbing.

386

: 00:16:33

I don't know why.

387

: 00:16:34

I think it was just such an

relief emotional release.

388

: 00:16:36

Yeah.

389

: 00:16:37

To just observe.

390

: 00:16:38

I was outside on my porch and looking

at I'm labeling it for you, but , the

391

: 00:16:42

trees, the birds, what I was hearing

when I was seeing, smelling all

392

: 00:16:46

that tasting, but not giving it

any label just, ooh, that is there.

393

: 00:16:51

Not even, yeah, it's hard to explain.

394

: 00:16:53

No, I like that a lot though.

395

: 00:16:55

It empties your brain and it

brings you fully in your body.

396

: 00:16:57

Yeah, and not labeling.

397

: 00:17:00

Yeah, I really like that.

398

: 00:17:01

I'll have to try that out next time.

399

: 00:17:02

Because anxiety is the opposite.

400

: 00:17:04

It's let me label every single thing.

401

: 00:17:06

Every situation, every scenario.

402

: 00:17:08

Interesting.

403

: 00:17:08

I'm sure it's not just Eckhart, I

think that's a pretty common thing,

404

: 00:17:11

but that's where I learned it from.

405

: 00:17:12

I've never heard of that though.

406

: 00:17:13

I'm surprised.

407

: 00:17:14

So technically that's a form of

meditation because you're emptying

408

: 00:17:17

your mind and being present.

409

: 00:17:18

Yeah.

410

: 00:17:19

Though type of meditation I'm

trained in, and that has really

411

: 00:17:22

changed me was mantra meditation.

412

: 00:17:25

Because your brain's going to brain,

you're going to think thoughts.

413

: 00:17:28

Absolutely.

414

: 00:17:29

So giving yourself a Sanskrit mantra

to focus on, is taking control

415

: 00:17:33

of your brain back and saying, no

brain, we're focusing on this now.

416

: 00:17:36

Nope, nope, we're focusing on this now.

417

: 00:17:38

So at least it gives your

brain something to latch on to.

418

: 00:17:41

Yeah.

419

: 00:17:42

To pull yourself out of the

thought loops and into this moment.

420

: 00:17:46

An easy one to start with is hum.

421

: 00:17:49

It means I am that I am.

422

: 00:17:51

It's connecting to your truest self.

423

: 00:17:54

Oh, I like that a lot.

424

: 00:17:56

So forget I told you

that and just say so hum.

425

: 00:17:58

But I love Kritajna Hum

("Krit-ah-nah Hum").

426

: 00:18:00

Oh, to me, it's like a lullaby.

427

: 00:18:02

It feels like an ocean

wave, the vibration of it.

428

: 00:18:06

It means I am gratitude.

429

: 00:18:08

Oh, that's lovely.

430

: 00:18:09

When you're practicing mantra meditation,

you're using it because of the

431

: 00:18:13

vibrational frequency of the mantra.

432

: 00:18:15

So "Krit-ah-nah Hum", the vibration it

makes in your body is the equivalent

433

: 00:18:20

of the energy of feeling gratitude.

434

: 00:18:23

If that makes sense.

435

: 00:18:24

It does make sense.

436

: 00:18:25

Yeah.

437

: 00:18:25

It's like how you feel in your

body with saying gratitude.

438

: 00:18:27

When you chant "Krit-ah-nah

Hum", it's the equivalent.

439

: 00:18:30

So it's activating that in you a

little metaphysical for you there.

440

: 00:18:33

I love that though.

441

: 00:18:34

Yeah.

442

: 00:18:35

You can chant them out loud, but

most of the time you're saying it

443

: 00:18:38

silently in your mind, almost like

you have a song stuck in your head.

444

: 00:18:41

I really like that.

445

: 00:18:42

I like the way that sounds too.

446

: 00:18:43

Do you want to try saying it?

447

: 00:18:45

You can say it.

448

: 00:18:45

Kretina hum.

449

: 00:18:47

Yeah.

450

: 00:18:47

Kretina hum.

451

: 00:18:48

Kretina hum.

452

: 00:18:50

It feels so good.

453

: 00:18:50

It feels good.

454

: 00:18:51

It feels like a warm hug.

455

: 00:18:52

Doesn't it?

456

: 00:18:52

Yeah.

457

: 00:18:53

It does.

458

: 00:18:54

It's amazing.

459

: 00:18:55

How chilled.

460

: 00:18:55

Yeah.

461

: 00:18:56

And if that's not a message of words

have power, I don't know what is.

462

: 00:19:00

Oh, absolutely.

463

: 00:19:01

Circling back to people, pleasing

what you're saying to yourself.

464

: 00:19:03

Love.

465

: 00:19:04

And saying to others that vibrational

frequency is impacting your life.

466

: 00:19:09

Oh, absolutely.

467

: 00:19:11

So not even about necessarily the

choices you're making as a people

468

: 00:19:13

pleaser, but if you're abandoning

yourself and saying things that aren't

469

: 00:19:16

in alignment with you and they're

vibrating with someone else, you're not

470

: 00:19:20

even connecting with who you really are.

471

: 00:19:22

No wonder why.

472

: 00:19:22

We all feel like crap.

473

: 00:19:24

I know.

474

: 00:19:26

I think too when I'm thinking about

people pleasing and if I'm having this

475

: 00:19:30

dilemma of do I want to say yes even

though it's not in my best interest.

476

: 00:19:35

Before I started setting those boundaries,

it was, Oh, I'm failing these people.

477

: 00:19:39

Oh, I'm going to be upsetting.

478

: 00:19:41

Like I'm not living up to their

expectation and changing that too.

479

: 00:19:45

I'm putting myself first.

480

: 00:19:47

I'm doing what's best for me.

481

: 00:19:49

The people who love me will see that.

482

: 00:19:51

Just change how you speak to yourself

and it just really changes the

483

: 00:19:55

way that you see the world and see

every situation that you're put in.

484

: 00:19:59

So essentially what I'm hearing you say is

putting yourself back into the equation.

485

: 00:20:03

Absolutely.

486

: 00:20:04

Which isn't selfish.

487

: 00:20:05

I guess people might think it

goes too far the other way.

488

: 00:20:09

It doesn't mean.

489

: 00:20:09

Fuck everybody.

490

: 00:20:11

I'm doing me.

491

: 00:20:12

It doesn't mean that either.

492

: 00:20:14

I'll just be here for you in my own way

and the way that best suits all of us.

493

: 00:20:19

Exactly.

494

: 00:20:19

Because when you're your best self,

you're your best self for everybody.

495

: 00:20:22

Exactly.

496

: 00:20:23

Yeah.

497

: 00:20:23

When you're depleted and upset but

you're putting on a brave face when

498

: 00:20:27

you're people pleasing, obviously

because you're pleasing them, you don't

499

: 00:20:30

want them to know that you're upset.

500

: 00:20:31

You're really not your best self

and you're not doing your best work

501

: 00:20:34

and you're not putting yourself

out there the way that you should.

502

: 00:20:37

You'd mentioned about

putting yourself first.

503

: 00:20:40

Yeah.

504

: 00:20:40

What are some ways that you've done this?

505

: 00:20:43

Do you have new habits or strategies or

hobbies that you do to make that shift?

506

: 00:20:49

I think now I'm very busy, but I

still try to make an hour a day.

507

: 00:20:55

I have to have at least

an hour a day for myself.

508

: 00:20:58

Mostly it's right before bed.

509

: 00:20:59

I make sure that I'm in bed at a certain

time to read my book before I go to sleep.

510

: 00:21:04

I paint a lot.

511

: 00:21:05

I love painting.

512

: 00:21:06

Oh, nice.

513

: 00:21:07

Yeah.

514

: 00:21:07

What kind of painting?

515

: 00:21:09

Ceramics.

516

: 00:21:09

Ooh.

517

: 00:21:10

My mom actually used to own a ceramic

business and she got out of it.

518

: 00:21:14

And so when I got back into it,

she really fully supported me.

519

: 00:21:17

Now I have a studio in my home.

520

: 00:21:19

It's very cute.

521

: 00:21:20

That's awesome.

522

: 00:21:22

It's definitely a way where I can

ground myself and really put my best

523

: 00:21:26

creative foot forward and really focus

on something instead of being in my head.

524

: 00:21:30

And I think that's what the

reading too, you really just

525

: 00:21:32

take yourself out of your body.

526

: 00:21:34

Yeah, and focus on what's

in front of you true.

527

: 00:21:36

I love reading I will say though

sometimes with me reading is a slippery

528

: 00:21:40

slope of escapism though Yes, like

it can go too far the other way where

529

: 00:21:44

it's almost a form of I guess you'd say

Disassociation where yeah life's too much.

530

: 00:21:49

Let me go hide in a book I think that's

been a pattern my whole life for myself.

531

: 00:21:53

I definitely understand that especially

If I'm having the Sunday scaries,

532

: 00:21:57

I'm like, let's just read my book.

533

: 00:21:59

Escape from this feeling or

the thought that I'm having.

534

: 00:22:02

I think that's something I need

to work towards is sitting with

535

: 00:22:05

that feeling and trying to work

through it instead of just escaping.

536

: 00:22:08

It got to a point where I was bringing

my Kindle cause I've had that where I

537

: 00:22:12

just use it for dissociation and I'll

bring my Kindle everywhere with me.

538

: 00:22:16

And anytime I have a single

moment to just relax.

539

: 00:22:20

I'm reading just to escape.

540

: 00:22:22

We've told that reading

is so good for you.

541

: 00:22:24

Reading is good.

542

: 00:22:26

So you don't feel as bad.

543

: 00:22:27

Exactly.

544

: 00:22:28

As just like another coping mechanism.

545

: 00:22:31

Being present I think is like the

theme, yeah being present with yourself

546

: 00:22:34

especially in those moments, too.

547

: 00:22:36

I have to ask what are your

favorite genres or what are you

548

: 00:22:39

currently reading right now?

549

: 00:22:40

Oh My favorite genres are fantasy romance.

550

: 00:22:44

Yes, II.

551

: 00:22:46

Did you read actor?

552

: 00:22:48

I read ACOTAR before it was

popular, like a few years ago.

553

: 00:22:51

As soon as I got back into reading, my

friend was like, you need to read this.

554

: 00:22:55

Shout out to Marina.

555

: 00:22:55

She changed my life.

556

: 00:22:57

With ACOTAR, I was

like, where have I been?

557

: 00:23:00

Throne of Glass is such an adventure.

558

: 00:23:02

I loved that series.

559

: 00:23:03

Although there's some parts where I'm

like, you gotta cut these chapters out.

560

: 00:23:06

But overall, yeah it's great.

561

: 00:23:07

It's such a slow build, but

the payoff is so worth it.

562

: 00:23:10

It is.

563

: 00:23:10

Yeah.

564

: 00:23:11

What am I reading right now?

565

: 00:23:12

Actually reading.

566

: 00:23:13

It's like an ACOTAR knockoff.

567

: 00:23:15

It's called rhapsodic.

568

: 00:23:17

Oh, never heard of it.

569

: 00:23:18

It's pretty good.

570

: 00:23:18

I'm enjoying myself.

571

: 00:23:19

If I look past all the similar traits

to the ACOTAR books, I can enjoy.

572

: 00:23:24

Yeah.

573

: 00:23:25

Nice.

574

: 00:23:25

What about you?

575

: 00:23:26

What are you reading?

576

: 00:23:27

I'm the type who has multiple

books going at one time.

577

: 00:23:29

I don't know if you're that way.

578

: 00:23:30

So let's see, I'm

finishing Throne of Glass.

579

: 00:23:33

And then, I'm reading this

book called 4, 000 weeks.

580

: 00:23:38

It's a time management book.

581

: 00:23:39

Do you think the time management

has helped especially with all

582

: 00:23:42

the things coming up for you?

583

: 00:23:43

Yes, it has because It's a

unique take on time management.

584

: 00:23:48

He talks a lot about How much grief

comes with managing your time, because

585

: 00:23:52

at any time you are picking, like for

instance, you chose to allocate time

586

: 00:23:57

to be here today, which I appreciate

so much, but that means that you

587

: 00:24:01

said no to a million other options.

588

: 00:24:04

And a lot of time there's grief with that.

589

: 00:24:07

If I say no to going out to this

concert with my friends because

590

: 00:24:11

I need time alone at home today.

591

: 00:24:14

I'm going to have grief about

I'm missing out on that.

592

: 00:24:17

Was this the right choice?

593

: 00:24:18

He really talks about processing

that and that's helped me a lot.

594

: 00:24:22

I like that a lot too.

595

: 00:24:23

I feel like we all experienced

that, especially when your friends

596

: 00:24:27

go out to that concert and you

see them having a great time.

597

: 00:24:29

You're like, Oh, why didn't I

want to go have a great time?

598

: 00:24:32

But you're really just

putting yourself first.

599

: 00:24:35

The book is called 4, 000 weeks time

management for mortals by Oliver Berkman.

600

: 00:24:40

I'll put this in the show notes.

601

: 00:24:41

It gets philosophical.

602

: 00:24:42

But it really ties into people pleasing

too, because a lot of the times we

603

: 00:24:46

manage our time around what other

people want and not what we want.

604

: 00:24:50

So then it talks about not only

the grief, but also being mindful

605

: 00:24:56

about how you're spending your time.

606

: 00:24:58

Like being honest with yourself too.

607

: 00:24:59

Being honest is the biggest part.

608

: 00:25:01

Yeah.

609

: 00:25:02

Yeah.

610

: 00:25:02

Do you think there was a part,

cause I can't remember when I

611

: 00:25:06

started people pleasing, I feel

like it's just been ingrained in

612

: 00:25:09

me for the longest period of time.

613

: 00:25:11

Yeah.

614

: 00:25:11

How about you?

615

: 00:25:12

Yeah, I think it's just, Upbringing

wise now having an outside bird's eye

616

: 00:25:17

view of my family's cultural norms,

is apparent that is what is expected.

617

: 00:25:22

Okay.

618

: 00:25:23

Keep the peace.

619

: 00:25:24

Yeah.

620

: 00:25:24

We don't rock the boat.

621

: 00:25:26

Put a smile on your face.

622

: 00:25:27

Yeah.

623

: 00:25:28

And then also to play on

that, the good girl mentality.

624

: 00:25:30

I was such a good girl won

all the awards, little leader.

625

: 00:25:35

Pleasure to have in class.

626

: 00:25:36

Oh, such a pleasure.

627

: 00:25:38

Always a pleasure.

628

: 00:25:39

Yeah.

629

: 00:25:40

Always a pleasure.

630

: 00:25:41

And now I'm looking back

and I'm like, was I really?

631

: 00:25:43

Is that, who would I have been if I?

632

: 00:25:45

Exactly.

633

: 00:25:45

I don't know.

634

: 00:25:47

How about you?

635

: 00:25:47

Do you feel like you were

always a people pleaser?

636

: 00:25:50

Oh, absolutely.

637

: 00:25:51

I think in the last two to three

years, I've really come out of it.

638

: 00:25:56

Which it doesn't seem

like that long of a time.

639

: 00:25:59

I think that shift, I've seen so

much growth in myself and really

640

: 00:26:03

acceptance for what I want.

641

: 00:26:05

And like you were saying, like

a bird's eye view of my life.

642

: 00:26:09

I think that's so important to to

look at yourself from a different

643

: 00:26:12

perspective, if that makes sense.

644

: 00:26:14

Yeah.

645

: 00:26:14

I find that with that too There's a

little exercise of if this conflict or

646

: 00:26:20

this situation was happening to somebody

that you love And like your best friend,

647

: 00:26:24

how would you want them to handle it?

648

: 00:26:26

And obviously you want them to

put themselves first That's good.

649

: 00:26:30

Yeah, so taking that perspective Of being

like, Oh, if it's not happening to me,

650

: 00:26:36

it's happening to somebody that I love.

651

: 00:26:38

I think now working towards body

acceptance and loving myself.

652

: 00:26:41

Now I'm trying to be like,

Oh, I am that person.

653

: 00:26:44

I am that best friend

and my own best friend.

654

: 00:26:46

Yeah.

655

: 00:26:47

Oh that's huge.

656

: 00:26:48

I feel like that's similar to

what I'm going through myself.

657

: 00:26:51

I'm not fully healed, obviously.

658

: 00:26:52

Oh, absolutely.

659

: 00:26:53

It's always a work of progress.

660

: 00:26:54

41 years of building this ship.

661

: 00:26:57

It's going to take a while to be

constructed, but that's amazing.

662

: 00:27:01

How about your childhood?

663

: 00:27:02

Because I was mentioning about being the

good girl the good student and all that.

664

: 00:27:06

How about you?

665

: 00:27:06

Yeah, I think the same.

666

: 00:27:08

I think I always just wanted to keep my

head low And just get by and just have

667

: 00:27:12

everyone just be okay I didn't want to

rock the boat as you were saying with your

668

: 00:27:15

family And I think that played out into

adulthood with not even dealing with it

669

: 00:27:19

and not even realizing I was doing it.

670

: 00:27:21

It's just ingrained in me.

671

: 00:27:23

And to really undo that

working inside of you.

672

: 00:27:26

This just popped into my head.

673

: 00:27:27

Yeah.

674

: 00:27:28

You said you have five brothers.

675

: 00:27:30

Yeah.

676

: 00:27:31

Do you notice a difference

between your brothers and you

677

: 00:27:35

as it comes to people pleasing?

678

: 00:27:37

You have a first hand view of not

only sibling differences, but also

679

: 00:27:43

male, female, gender, whatever you

subscribe to, whatever you were, Yeah.

680

: 00:27:48

Raised as what differences do you see?

681

: 00:27:52

I find that my brothers, so

none of them experience anxiety.

682

: 00:27:55

Really.

683

: 00:27:55

Wow.

684

: 00:27:56

Which is so fascinating.

685

: 00:27:57

My brother and I have conversations

all the time of now he

686

: 00:28:00

understands anxiety because of me.

687

: 00:28:03

But to hear how his brain works and

how he doesn't really get into his

688

: 00:28:09

head like that is so fascinating.

689

: 00:28:11

But I think with.

690

: 00:28:12

Men, like not generalizing, but in my

experience, I think they grow up in a

691

: 00:28:17

way where they do put themselves first.

692

: 00:28:19

And for women you are always meant to

please, you're always meant to be like

693

: 00:28:23

a servant in a way to other people.

694

: 00:28:25

And men don't have that.

695

: 00:28:26

So that's really interesting.

696

: 00:28:28

Did you experience any

of that in childhood?

697

: 00:28:31

I honestly can't remember.

698

: 00:28:33

I can't remember.

699

: 00:28:33

That's good.

700

: 00:28:34

That means you don't

have That's really good.

701

: 00:28:37

Yeah.

702

: 00:28:38

Nothing definitive happened.

703

: 00:28:40

Cause we range like 13 years to

see the differences between them.

704

: 00:28:45

It feels like we're in totally

different households and we've

705

: 00:28:48

grown up to be different people.

706

: 00:28:50

It's so interesting, especially

with people pleasing.

707

: 00:28:53

I'm always trying to

be there for everybody.

708

: 00:28:55

And they also are that way too.

709

: 00:28:57

They're always there for

me and stuff like that.

710

: 00:28:59

But the attitude behind it,

it's oh, they want to do this.

711

: 00:29:03

And I think obviously

we're both good people.

712

: 00:29:07

You want to do good things

for the people that you love.

713

: 00:29:09

but there comes to a

point where it's too much.

714

: 00:29:11

And I feel like knowing that

threshold of when it's too much.

715

: 00:29:15

Great point.

716

: 00:29:16

So this sparks a debate sometimes with

people, because a lot of this conversation

717

: 00:29:20

is basically holding a mirror up to people

and that's painful sometimes when you

718

: 00:29:24

are faced with your own patterns, right?

719

: 00:29:26

So it's so interesting doing this podcast,

even just talking about it with people,

720

: 00:29:30

how others will come to me and open up.

721

: 00:29:33

But then also when you start doing

this work it leads to some confusion.

722

: 00:29:37

You're like.

723

: 00:29:37

But I want to help people that doesn't

necessarily make me a people pleaser.

724

: 00:29:41

And then they're saying what if I do

something that I don't want to do, but

725

: 00:29:45

it's for my spouse, or it's for my family.

726

: 00:29:48

Does that make me a people pleaser?

727

: 00:29:50

There's a difference

between that and compromise.

728

: 00:29:52

Yes.

729

: 00:29:53

, it's a very nuanced thing.

730

: 00:29:54

Nothing is clean cut.

731

: 00:29:57

Exactly.

732

: 00:29:58

The human experience is so complex.

733

: 00:30:00

We want to be kind to people, but

it's maybe the difference is you run

734

: 00:30:05

it through your own filter, you're

not just reflexively doing stuff.

735

: 00:30:08

You're actually pausing and

making the decision for yourself.

736

: 00:30:12

Absolutely.

737

: 00:30:14

Does this align with the

person that I want to be?

738

: 00:30:16

I think that helped me a lot, especially

when there was something I didn't want to

739

: 00:30:19

do to really evaluate with that alignment,

cause do you want to be a good person?

740

: 00:30:24

I think that everybody does in

some sort of way, unless you're

741

: 00:30:28

like a Disney evil villain.

742

: 00:30:30

I have a question with people

pleasing and the shift you've seen

743

: 00:30:33

in yourself over the past few years.

744

: 00:30:35

Yeah.

745

: 00:30:35

How have the people around you reacted?

746

: 00:30:38

Ooh, that's a good question.

747

: 00:30:40

I think it's difficult for some especially

people who are very close to you who

748

: 00:30:44

haven't seen you put boundaries and don't

understand what boundaries really mean.

749

: 00:30:50

Especially when people don't respect

those boundaries and they keep pushing

750

: 00:30:55

and having to remind them over and over.

751

: 00:30:58

And then all of a sudden

being like, I have reminded

752

: 00:31:00

you I'm putting my foot down.

753

: 00:31:02

It's interesting to see this shift

in yourself and see it in other

754

: 00:31:07

people of how they react to you.

755

: 00:31:09

Have you had any friendships or

relationships shift or go away?

756

: 00:31:13

I don't think so.

757

: 00:31:14

I think they've definitely changed, but

I think it's changed for the better.

758

: 00:31:18

Oh good.

759

: 00:31:18

That's awesome.

760

: 00:31:18

Yeah.

761

: 00:31:19

I think everyone, especially now

in my life, is very respectful.

762

: 00:31:23

had friendships where it comes to

a point of wanting to be there for

763

: 00:31:27

someone who isn't there for themselves

and trying to be that person for them.

764

: 00:31:32

And then putting yourself first and

be like, I can't do this anymore.

765

: 00:31:35

I need to protect myself.

766

: 00:31:37

Yeah.

767

: 00:31:37

I think that's like a

form of people pleasing.

768

: 00:31:40

But like evaluating

them and stopping that.

769

: 00:31:43

How about you?

770

: 00:31:44

Over the years of all of this healing,

I definitely have lost friendships.

771

: 00:31:49

Is it really a loss though?

772

: 00:31:51

Exactly.

773

: 00:31:52

Like I said, if it's the people who want

the best for you and love you the most.

774

: 00:31:55

Exactly.

775

: 00:31:56

They want to be there.

776

: 00:31:57

A form of people pleasing

keeping this friend around

777

: 00:32:00

cause I've been friends

with them for so long.

778

: 00:32:02

I think that is a problem

that a lot of people have.

779

: 00:32:05

Why are you still

friends with this person?

780

: 00:32:06

Why do you still talk to them?

781

: 00:32:08

Oh we've been friends since middle school,

or Oh, I've known him for this long.

782

: 00:32:13

We've worked together for 20 years.

783

: 00:32:14

or That can also be a form of people

pleasing, because you don't want to

784

: 00:32:18

break up with your friend because

you've changed and they haven't, but

785

: 00:32:22

you're not willing to let that go.

786

: 00:32:24

Absolutely.

787

: 00:32:25

Especially as you're growing if you don't

see growth in them, or they're not willing

788

: 00:32:28

to have growth, It's very interesting

to be this is taking away from my joy.

789

: 00:32:31

I need to walk away from this

relationship Yes, and that's so hard.

790

: 00:32:35

It's so hard because we don't talk

about friendship breakups enough.

791

: 00:32:38

It's devastating.

792

: 00:32:39

It is.

793

: 00:32:40

I had a friendship breakup of

11 years and it was on and off.

794

: 00:32:44

I was trying to be there They

were in a toxic relationship.

795

: 00:32:49

I couldn't be around . It got to a point

where they said they were going to leave.

796

: 00:32:52

They kept going back and I was like, I

can't put my heart through this again.

797

: 00:32:55

Yeah.

798

: 00:32:55

Yeah.

799

: 00:32:56

It's really hard.

800

: 00:32:57

It's so hard.

801

: 00:32:58

People don't talk about it enough.

802

: 00:32:59

They don't.

803

: 00:33:00

Yeah.

804

: 00:33:00

It's very devastating.

805

: 00:33:02

Cause especially when you spend so

much of your life with somebody.

806

: 00:33:05

Even work friendships too.

807

: 00:33:07

Yeah.

808

: 00:33:07

Cause a lot of friendships, you're

so close cause you work together.

809

: 00:33:10

And they don't last outside

of work when you move on.

810

: 00:33:13

That's sad too.

811

: 00:33:14

And you always say they're going

to, and then they just don't.

812

: 00:33:16

You just fizzle out.

813

: 00:33:17

Yeah.

814

: 00:33:18

But having the courage to end

those relationships that aren't

815

: 00:33:21

serving your highest good.

816

: 00:33:22

Absolutely.

817

: 00:33:23

For friendships and such is huge.

818

: 00:33:26

One part of the healing journey I've

noticed with people pleasing and loving

819

: 00:33:29

myself is who I surround myself with,

but intentionally looking for who

820

: 00:33:36

speak my language and support me and

having those deep soul friendships.

821

: 00:33:41

I intentionally, it was like I want to

surround myself with people who I can

822

: 00:33:45

talk to you about this stuff or, my

spiritual side and that sort of thing.

823

: 00:33:49

I don't want to hide who I

am, which I felt like I had

824

: 00:33:51

to do so much as a teacher.

825

: 00:33:53

I've made these soul

connection friendships here.

826

: 00:33:55

Oh, I love that.

827

: 00:33:56

The past few years.

828

: 00:33:57

And it's been a beautiful thing to see and

witness and I think it's because I didn't

829

: 00:34:03

people please myself with, just being

unintentional about who has surrounding.

830

: 00:34:07

I guess I'll hang out with them.

831

: 00:34:09

Yeah.

832

: 00:34:09

But only because of this reason

of that I'm new and I'm back.

833

: 00:34:13

Interesting.

834

: 00:34:14

the light just flashed on and off.

835

: 00:34:15

I'm pretty sure off and

on, so I'm pretty sure.

836

: 00:34:18

The ghosts that haunt

this house agree with us.

837

: 00:34:21

Yeah.

838

: 00:34:23

Like good for you.

839

: 00:34:23

They're like chair from the back.

840

: 00:34:25

Have you had a similar experience at all?

841

: 00:34:27

I think so.

842

: 00:34:27

Yeah.

843

: 00:34:28

I think now with all the friendships that

I've made, there's a common respect and

844

: 00:34:32

there's a common admiration for really,

Being yourself and being your best self.

845

: 00:34:38

Everybody who I'm surrounded with

really, I think, believes that we're

846

: 00:34:42

all going through our own thing, but

being there for people where you can

847

: 00:34:45

have deep connections, you can talk

deeply with them and feel like it's a

848

: 00:34:48

safe space is really it's so valuable.

849

: 00:34:52

Honestly you can't put a value on it.

850

: 00:34:55

So taking a look at who you surround

yourself with will show you your patterns

851

: 00:34:59

of people pleasing for sure Oh, absolutely

show you where you're abandoning yourself

852

: 00:35:03

in some areas But really all of this comes

down to, in my opinion, having courage

853

: 00:35:08

to put your wellbeing first, doing some

hard stuff to hit reboot on your life.

854

: 00:35:14

Absolutely.

855

: 00:35:15

It's the thought of what's the

worst thing that's going to

856

: 00:35:18

happen if I put myself first.

857

: 00:35:20

And nothing, because you're putting

yourself first, everything that follows

858

: 00:35:25

was meant to be, especially people who

don't want to be in your life after that.

859

: 00:35:29

They don't want What's best for you.

860

: 00:35:31

Megan: I think there's this negative

connotation on the word selfish.

861

: 00:35:34

Oh, it seems selfish to put myself

first , but you only have one life,

862

: 00:35:39

what are you going to do with it?

863

: 00:35:41

Are you going to spend your

whole life serving others?

864

: 00:35:42

Are you going to serve yourself?

865

: 00:35:44

True.

866

: 00:35:44

Yeah.

867

: 00:35:45

Jenny: Then you can help others more so

from a more stable centered place if you

868

: 00:35:50

are taking care of your needs for sure.

869

: 00:35:52

Absolutely.

870

: 00:35:54

I've been wrapping up all the interviews,

asking people have, you could put a

871

: 00:35:58

piece of advice on a bumper sticker.

872

: 00:36:01

What would you put?

873

: 00:36:02

Probably if will this matter in five

weeks, five months or five years?

874

: 00:36:08

Ah, yes.

875

: 00:36:09

Will it.

876

: 00:36:10

Probably not.

877

: 00:36:12

And you just worry about so much

and just to really evaluate,

878

: 00:36:15

to be like, when will this.

879

: 00:36:17

It valid.

880

: 00:36:18

That's impacting your life right now.

881

: 00:36:20

But realizing how small

of an issue this is.

882

: 00:36:24

And it might be a big issue, but at five

years will be a big issue who knows.

883

: 00:36:28

Probably not.

884

: 00:36:29

You're like, oh, I don't want

to have to deal with this.

885

: 00:36:32

Yeah.

886

: 00:36:33

Is this conversation going

to matter in five years?

887

: 00:36:35

Well, some of it might because you might

not be friends with the person anymore.

888

: 00:36:38

No, but others know, like I can get

through feeling like crap right now.

889

: 00:36:41

It'll be all right.

890

: 00:36:43

And I think also with

anxiety and people pleasing.

891

: 00:36:46

I'm always thinking about like my

reactions and how I'm handling things.

892

: 00:36:50

A lot of people will not

remember that in five years.

893

: 00:36:53

You're like, but I'm very head.

894

: 00:36:54

Oh, good point.

895

: 00:36:57

to you.

896

: 00:36:58

Is it that big deal in the

universe of things like in your

897

: 00:37:01

community and stuff like that?

898

: 00:37:03

Really great point because we really

are all, I mean, it's just the

899

: 00:37:06

human way, but we are all excited.

900

: 00:37:09

Going to be the best time.

901

: 00:37:10

That's awesome.

902

: 00:37:11

Quality time with the people that I love.

903

: 00:37:13

Yes.

904

: 00:37:14

Oh, beautiful.

905

: 00:37:15

I appreciate you making time to come

talk to us and thanks for having me.

906

: 00:37:19

Yeah.

907

: 00:37:19

Yeah, of course.

908

: 00:37:20

Yeah.

909

: 00:37:21

I saw your Instagram post.

910

: 00:37:22

I got to do it.

911

: 00:37:23

I love it.

912

: 00:37:23

Amazing.

913

: 00:37:25

I love how many people are being willing

to share their stories, to help others.

914

: 00:37:28

And.

915

: 00:37:29

Too.

916

: 00:37:29

I think also, you know, show themselves.

917

: 00:37:32

Their own growth.

918

: 00:37:33

Absolutely.

919

: 00:37:33

It was good to talk about your journey.

920

: 00:37:36

Absolutely amazing.

921

: 00:37:38

I hope that someone out there

that's like wedding planning

922

: 00:37:39

understands and like sees us.

923

: 00:37:41

So maybe it'll help a little Yes, I hope

so what they want their day to look like.

924

: 00:37:44

Exactly.

925

: 00:37:45

Yeah.

926

: 00:37:45

Beautiful.

927

: 00:37:46

Yeah.

928

: 00:37:46

Well, thanks so much, Megan.

929

: 00:37:47

Thank you.