Ep 16: Mindful Healing & Setting Personal Limits: An Interview with Liliana

Lil: 00:00:00

How are you?

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Oh my gosh, I'm so good.

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I'm super excited to talk

about this kind of thing.

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I feel like we need to

talk about this stuff more,

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Jenny: I don't quite know when I learned

the phrase people pleaser, but it

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definitely wasn't until like my thirties

that I realized my patterns were that.

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It's it's finally becoming

something that people talk about.

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Thank goodness.

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But you're right.

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Having these conversations are so crucial.

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I

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Lil: think for so long, it was so

normalized for people to engage

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in people pleasing that we didn't

even realize that's what it was.

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If we even just think about like women

in the fifties and how emotionally

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unavailable men they still are, but

especially then, And we couldn't

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talk about those kinds of things.

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We would get called

names, needy or whatever.

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And it's I'm just expressing that I

need something like that's, everybody

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Jenny: has needs.

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Basic human instinct to

have needs and wants.

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Exactly.

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I really appreciate you being here

and volunteering to tell your story.

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Lil: I've done so much healing.

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That not that long ago, I would

have just scrolled past that

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because I discovered you on TikTok.

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And I would have just scrolled past

it because doing something like this

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would just give me so much anxiety.

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Yeah.

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What inspired you to start this?

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Like how did this come about?

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Jenny: I left teaching a few

years ago to take a leap of

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faith and start my own business.

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I do Reiki energy healing

and that kind of thing.

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But I knew that wasn't

where I was meant to be.

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In business they always say to niche down.

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To find your target audience and what

problem was your audience dealing with?

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And I struggled with that because

like with energy work, people

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have all different kinds of

problems and it just was off.

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Then actually one day

I'm a big voice memo fan.

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So my friends and I, a few of us, we send.

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The voice memos like basically mini

podcasts between you and your friend,

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I was driving down to Myrtle beach,

actually, and I don't even know

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what I was telling my friend about,

but it was this long ass message.

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And at the end I said, and that

sums up this week's episode of diary

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of a recovering people pleaser.

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And then I was like, holy shit,

it was the light bulb moment.

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Lil: It's funny because even before

I came across your video there's

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this coworker that we talk about

those kinds of things all the time.

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And I referenced to myself like that

always, I will always say as a recovering

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people pleaser, I have to say this.

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And that's awesome.

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It definitely resonates.

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Yeah.

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Jenny: That's amazing.

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I'm so glad you're here and as my first

official guest who I've never met in

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person, this is like next level for me.

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And I know you're excited too, because

you've been dying to share your story.

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So do you want to start off by

introducing yourself, telling

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us a little bit about yourself?

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Lil: My name is Lil.

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I grew up in Mexico till I was 18 and

then I came to the US for college.

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Currently I live in Idaho.

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I've had some pretty major

transformational shifts

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in my life recently.

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Back in 2020, I got

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Now, four years later we're

separated and I live in my own house.

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Oh yeah, that's a big

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Jenny: shift.

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Lil: Huge.

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Yeah, before I'm even

30, so that was crazy.

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But the whole process of even

Communicating to my husband that I needed

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to walk away from this relationship.

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That was a big step for me as a recovering

people pleaser, yeah, that was crazy

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because there was not really anything in

the relationship that felt bad it just

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was a relationship that wasn't meeting

my needs even when I had communicated

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those, and so to walk away from a person

who is kind, who does love me, but can't

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meet those needs, that was a Big thing

for me as a recovering people pleaser.

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Wow.

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You

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Jenny: are not just talking the talk.

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You are literally walking the

walk of holding boundaries,

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putting your needs first.

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Wow.

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I usually like to start by asking

people how do you define people pleasing?

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How did you know you

were a people pleaser?

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Is there a certain set of behaviors

that you noticed or beliefs?

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Lil: It all feels blurry because it

was definitely a gradual realization.

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When I started going to therapy

back in: 2022

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that I was a people pleaser at all.

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And I don't think my therapist

even pointed it out explicitly.

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There's definitely a lot.

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I think especially when I think about

my romantic relationships, that was

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something that deeply affected things.

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And I didn't even realize that yes, I had

partners who were real shitty, honestly.

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Yeah, even if I had communicated what I

needed they wouldn't have met those needs.

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But especially now with this podcast

and the questions that you asked,

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I'm recognizing the people pleasing

behaviors in my past relationships that

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previously I was blaming the other person.

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Jenny: Oh, interesting.

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Okay.

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Lil: Yeah.

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Because as a people pleaser, I think

that you tend to minimize your needs

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and even maybe compromise and sacrifice

your own well being for the other

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person without them even asking.

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You just do it.

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And then me I expected

that to be reciprocated.

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And when it wasn't reciprocated

I interpreted that as rejection

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and withholding of love.

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Now, on this side of the recovering

people pleasing journey, I'm realizing

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that's not exactly how relationships work.

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Yes,

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Jenny: You can't see me right now

people, but I'm sitting here nodding

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my head because yes, I can 100

percent relate to what you're saying.

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Lil: Totally.

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There was definitely a lot there where,

In past relationships when I was in my

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early 20s that because I was expecting

the other person to reciprocate what I was

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doing, which was minimizing my own needs

and compromising without them asking.

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When they wouldn't reciprocate,

I would blame them for that.

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Not knowing that it was an unhealthy

behavior because that's how I grew

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up that was what was normal for me.

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Especially in the last couple of days

that I've realized I've looked back on

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those relationships where Felt for a

long time resentful against the other

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person and even maybe blamed them

for the downfall of the relationship.

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I'm realizing that It definitely takes

two, and if I had been more emotionally

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aware I know that those relationships

would have ended anyway, but at least , if

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I had been emotionally aware, I could have

communicated what I needed, and when I

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realized that those needs were not going

to be met, I could have walked away.

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I think that's the hardest part of The

people pleasing journey is like knowing

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when to walk away from something.

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Jenny: Oh gosh.

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Yes.

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I am the master of giving

people 5 million chances.

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Lil: Yeah.

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You don't want to lose that connection.

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When you're a people pleaser,

that's how, I received love.

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Growing up, I was an only child my

parents expected me to minimize my own

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needs for the sake of their good time.

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There was a lot of times where

we would go out to dinner or

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whatever with their friends.

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And even if it was a school night,

even if I was tired, even if I

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wanted to go home, those were not

things that I could communicate

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because then they would get upset.

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And so for me to be the good child,

I had to minimize those needs.

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And I thought that's how you

receive and exchange love.

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Yes,

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Jenny: somehow on Tik TOK, my

algorithm got into the eldest

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daughter, good girl behavior.

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Yeah.

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It's not a tick tock.

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I'm like, are you inside of my head?

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And it's similar to what you're saying.

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Only child ,eldest, same thing.

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I can't even think about how many

times from various adults in my life

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who said, Oh, Jenny's an old soul.

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She could, she's so reliable.

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I don't worry about her.

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I worry about the other kids.

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And that was considered a badge of honor.

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They give awards for that,

like in the classroom, right?

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You're a classroom leader!

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You're the peacekeeper!

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Yes, I know some of it are good

attributes, but also it's people pleasing!

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Because you're taught to fall in line

and conform and suppress anything that

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might make someone else uncomfortable.

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Lil: Ah!

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Suppress your own thoughts

and feelings and opinions for

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the sake of keeping the peace.

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Jenny: Oh gosh.

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Have you had this experience as a

recovering people pleaser, that when

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you finally have this realization of

hot damn, I've been censoring myself.

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And you don't know how to

really fully express yourself.

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Sometimes I swing the other way.

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It'll be pent up and then , it'll

word vomit out of me or burst

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out of me or maybe not handle

it in the best way because I'll

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maybe lash out at the wrong time.

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But it's because I'm still

learning that skill of speaking

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my mind, or is that just me?

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Lil: No, I think that's completely valid.

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I feel like when you start to recognize

that behavior and you want to correct

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it, there's times where you are able to

recognize it before you engage in it, but

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then you engage in it anyway, and it's

like breaking an addiction just because

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you recognize it before you engage in the

behavior doesn't mean that you've failed.

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It just means that's just a

part of the healing process.

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First part is to recognize it.

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And when you, okay.

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are able to recognize it and activate

that frontal lobe, then you're able

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to act on it and hopefully act in

the way that is most aligned with

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you the person that you want to be.

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Jenny: I love you said that

it doesn't make you wrong.

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Like you didn't mess up, basically,

if you notice that you're people

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pleasing or noticing that you're

maybe responding and not the best way

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and you don't fully catch yourself.

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The fact that you noticed it

in the first place is a win.

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I think that's huge because

another part of people pleasing

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is being a perfectionist.

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So if I can't win and get an A plus at

anti people pleasing, then I've failed.

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It's so black and white

a lot of the times.

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Lil: It really is.

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Cause there's a, there's definitely

a lot of self judgment and criticism

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that comes with people pleasing as well

because hindsight is always 20, 20.

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And when you look back at an interaction,

you're like I could have done this better.

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That's just part of learning how to come

out of this habit that you're having.

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It's not gonna be like oh i realize i'm

people pleasing one day and the next

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day i stop it is a long process that

has different stages and sometimes you

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regress a little bit but the regression

is just To help you propel forward.

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That a lot with babies when

they start to learn how to walk.

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They'll take their first steps or they'll

start walking and then one day they'll

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go back to crawling for a little bit.

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Yep.

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That's just a completely normal

part of developing a new skill.

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Jenny: I like that.

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Thank you for that clarity.

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So whenever you're beating yourself

up listeners, don't do that.

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Just think about the baby

is building his new skills.

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You're literally rewiring your

brain one interaction at a time.

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Totally.

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Is there a particular moment in

time that you can think of that was

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a turning point that just flipped

a switch for you and you're like,

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hell no, I'm not doing this anymore.

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Lil: I thought about this question

quite a bit and I honestly don't think

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that there was a turning point for

me where I had a light bulb moment.

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It was definitely very gradual as I

started to realize that, if someone

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says no to my extension to an invitation

to like, not take it personal, I

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think that was a big part of healing

that people pleasing tendency.

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Because if I can give other people grace

for needing to recharge or needing to do

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a rain check or maybe perhaps they don't

want to do the activity or whatever and

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giving other people grace about that

and realizing that it's not about me,

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then I can do that for myself as well.

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And I can hope maybe that other people

are also not taking my boundaries or

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my denial for an invitation personally.

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That was a big part, I think,

of my people picking journey.

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That's

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Jenny: huge.

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So diving into it, why do you think

it bothered you beforehand, before

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this realization, if someone said no?

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Lil: I think because

I took it so personal.

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I always thought it was

something that I did, or that

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I had to do something with me.

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Oh, this person doesn't

want to hang out with me.

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Or if they put up a boundary of I

don't like it when You do something

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to realize that it really has not

a whole lot to do with me and more

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with what the person is doing and

interpreting or what they're needing,

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understanding that everybody has their

own needs and understanding that them

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communicating that need is actually kind.

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Oh yeah.

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And it's healthy for our

relationship to move forward.

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How is it kind?

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What

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Jenny: do you mean by that?

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Lil: So for example, if I made plans with

a friend, and actually this happens to me

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often, I'll make plans in advance with a

person and then the day comes and, maybe

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I've been really busy for the last couple

of days, maybe I don't have enough sleep

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and I'm just not in the best mood to go

and do that activity with that person.

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Sometimes I'll have to reschedule

and say, I'm not feeling so good.

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Can we reschedule?

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And realizing that's more about how I'm

feeling and my needs and it has nothing

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to do with that person I love my friend

and I want to hang out with you, but I

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need to take care of me first so that

I can be in a good headspace so that we

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can fully enjoy our time together, right?

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So if I just decided to people please,

and not brain check and go, I might

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even cause more harm because that

person might internalize my Not upbeat

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mood as I don't want to be here when

in reality it's because I haven't met

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a need that I need to meet for myself.

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Jenny: Oh my gosh.

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That was perfectly put.

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So that's wonderful.

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I love that so much.

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It's true.

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You're you want to be the best version

of you when you're with your friends

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. Finding that balance between best version

of yourself for yourself, which would

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be putting up the boundary and giving

yourself rest and then putting on the

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best face you can for your friend.

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That's perfect.

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I love that so much and

not seeing it as rejection.

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I guess maybe part of my story with people

saying no with people pleasing is that I

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would give so much and my friendships and

relationships would feel so one sided.

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Because I was abandoning

myself the whole friggin time.

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I was like, I did this for this person

I went and did that, even though, blah,

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blah, blah, I was feeling like crap dah.

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And then I asked them to do one thing,

and they can't even do this for me.

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It goes back to what you were saying

about they didn't sign up for me to do

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all that, they didn't ask for me to

abandon myself and do stuff when I felt

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like shit and everything like that.

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I just went and did it and then

expected them to reciprocate and

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then to receive that no would feel

like a little slap in the face.

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Lil: That makes a lot of sense to

be honest, because That's how I feel

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like I developed my people pleasing

tendencies in childhood because

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that was how we exchanged love.

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When you grow up and you expect that from

other people who maybe don't engage in

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people pleasing, taking care of themselves

feels like they're rejecting you.

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Jenny: It's like an outsider when

an outsider comes into life with a

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family and they don't people please.

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You're thinking, what are you doing?

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We don't say no.

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If someone has this family

gathering, you go unless you're

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sick with COVID or pneumonia or your

legs broken, you're going right.

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Yeah.

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I don't feel good.

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You can't make it.

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Yeah.

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Lil: Yeah, and then that

justification too, right?

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Like it has to be something like

so major for you to be able to say

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no to something when like filling

your own cup, it should be major

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enough should be justified enough.

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If I just need to be alone for a couple

hours, because that's what I need.

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That's justification enough.

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And I think a lot of the time as people

pleaser it doesn't feel like it because

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we're so used to suppressing those needs.

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And being just a little bit uncomfortable

for the sake of everybody else.

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Jenny: Yes, spot on.

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One thing I've noticed and one thing

I think is really important in this

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journey is that just because I am where

I am in my healing journey doesn't

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mean everyone else is where I am.

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And I can't expect them to be where I am.

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So I have butted heads with people and

I still do, and that will still happen.

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And then they will butt heads with me

cause that's just human nature, but just

317

: 00:16:55

because I had this epiphany and all of

a sudden I decide I know what this word

318

: 00:17:00

boundaries means and I'm going to start

saying stuff differently doesn't mean

319

: 00:17:05

they necessarily are caught up yet.

320

: 00:17:06

And that's okay.

321

: 00:17:07

I think holding space

for people not judging.

322

: 00:17:11

Lil: It's definitely

always a work in progress.

323

: 00:17:13

I often will say being on

this side of healing that

324

: 00:17:16

doesn't mean that I'm healed.

325

: 00:17:17

It just means that I've overcome

some pretty large obstacles.

326

: 00:17:21

You never stop learning.

327

: 00:17:22

It's a work in progress from

when you're born until you die.

328

: 00:17:26

Jenny: I was just writing down what you

wrote, being on this side of healing.

329

: 00:17:29

I love that.

330

: 00:17:30

I love that phrase.

331

: 00:17:31

Lil: There's always little things

that we can do to be kinder to

332

: 00:17:36

ourselves and to the people around us.

333

: 00:17:37

Putting out boundaries at first, it

feels really selfish and then you

334

: 00:17:42

might not go about it in the best way.

335

: 00:17:45

I know that when I started putting

up boundaries with, my mom, for

336

: 00:17:48

example I definitely look back and I

wish that I could have handled that

337

: 00:17:52

better, but that was my first time,

and especially it was a pretty pretty

338

: 00:17:56

big milestone for me cause I'd never

put up a boundary with my parents ever.

339

: 00:18:01

For me to be hard on myself because

I didn't handle it perfectly.

340

: 00:18:04

I mean, That's silly, right?

341

: 00:18:05

Because, no one does anything

perfectly the first time they try it.

342

: 00:18:09

Jenny: Are there any things like

maybe techniques or habits that

343

: 00:18:13

you'd recommend that have helped you.

344

: 00:18:15

Like for me, I'll meditate or, do breath

work . How are you kind to yourself?

345

: 00:18:20

How do you set aside time for yourself?

346

: 00:18:23

Lil: That's a really good question.

347

: 00:18:24

Oftentimes, especially in the beginning,

when I was learning how to do this.

348

: 00:18:30

I would think a lot about child

me, and how some of the stuff that

349

: 00:18:36

little me went through that maybe

she wasn't quite as understood or

350

: 00:18:41

given the kindness that maybe she needed.

351

: 00:18:44

Cause I'm a highly sensitive person.

352

: 00:18:45

I've always been that way.

353

: 00:18:46

It was really hard actually to

admit that and be okay with it.

354

: 00:18:51

And even now I'm proud that I'm a

highly sensitive person, but for a

355

: 00:18:56

long time, it was a source of shame

because feeling things so deeply

356

: 00:19:00

it's not something that's praised

and it's often something that people

357

: 00:19:04

laugh at or would like to make fun of.

358

: 00:19:07

But going back to your question I

often try to think of little me and

359

: 00:19:11

the times when she should have been

treated with a little more kindness.

360

: 00:19:16

I go back to those memories and I

re parent myself in that moment and

361

: 00:19:20

think, what would little me, what

would she need to hear in order to

362

: 00:19:24

feel better about the situation?

363

: 00:19:26

And whatever comes out, it's usually some

form of gentle parenting is what I try

364

: 00:19:32

to implement in my life currently as a

365

: 00:19:37

Jenny: dog.

366

: 00:19:38

For folks who've never heard of that,

are you doing that through journaling,

367

: 00:19:41

through meditation, are you literally

talking out loud to yourself?

368

: 00:19:45

Oh, I

369

: 00:19:45

Lil: do it in all kinds of ways, yeah.

370

: 00:19:47

Because

371

: 00:19:48

Jenny: people might not be familiar with

this, especially if you've never been

372

: 00:19:50

to therapy, can you give some examples?

373

: 00:19:53

Lil: Yeah, when I started going to

therapy, I was so ready to heal.

374

: 00:19:57

So a lot of things happened very quickly

for me, but the biggest thing that helped

375

: 00:20:04

me was journaling, definitely just writing

things out as they come up in my head and

376

: 00:20:09

not worrying about how it reads , it's

just putting down your thoughts on paper.

377

: 00:20:14

It's like an emotional release

almost because you're putting it

378

: 00:20:17

out there and then you can go back

and read it and you'll notice things

379

: 00:20:21

that you wrote down that maybe you

didn't even realize you were feeling.

380

: 00:20:24

Or you can even maybe sometimes notice

patterns as you do it more and you

381

: 00:20:31

go back and reread it, you'll notice

patterns of behaviors or patterns of

382

: 00:20:36

how your parents chose to deal with

things and how that affected you and how

383

: 00:20:40

that is manifesting in your adult life.

384

: 00:20:43

So journaling was a

really big help for me.

385

: 00:20:46

But also going on walks,

it was very therapeutic.

386

: 00:20:50

I would go on walks with my dog by

myself, and I wouldn't listen to

387

: 00:20:53

anything, I would just walk and allow

my mind to wander, and a lot of times

388

: 00:20:57

that was really healing for me, because

I would be able to pinpoint the source

389

: 00:21:02

of some of my people pleasing behaviors.

390

: 00:21:04

Jenny: When you're

391

: 00:21:04

Lil: able to go back to the source,

most of the time, is childhood.

392

: 00:21:08

So when you're able to go back and

realize, Oh, I'm a people pleased

393

: 00:21:13

because, my parents did this thing.

394

: 00:21:15

Then you can heal that and you can

see that was just in my childhood.

395

: 00:21:18

That was a coping mechanism I developed.

396

: 00:21:21

I'm grateful for that coping mechanism

because it helped me survive my childhood.

397

: 00:21:24

And now I can release it and let it

go because it's no longer serving me.

398

: 00:21:29

I'm an adult now.

399

: 00:21:30

I can fight my own battles now.

400

: 00:21:32

Jenny: That was amazing.

401

: 00:21:33

It's spot on.

402

: 00:21:35

I guess one thing I want to add to is.

403

: 00:21:37

It's almost like you go through the phases

of grief when you're doing this healing,

404

: 00:21:41

and one of them might be anger, and yes,

I know you might get angry at the parental

405

: 00:21:46

figures, the adults who maybe set up

circumstances for you to have these coping

406

: 00:21:51

mechanisms like you mentioned, and you

might get angry and frustrated about that.

407

: 00:21:56

But I think it's important to not

point a finger and place blame to,

408

: 00:22:00

you might have those moments where you

have an adult hissy fit meltdown, of

409

: 00:22:03

course, go ahead let it out, all right?

410

: 00:22:05

But I have seen people get stuck in that

phase of their healing and you're not

411

: 00:22:11

really healing, you're just activating

your ego and now your ego found another

412

: 00:22:15

enemy and you're still the victim.

413

: 00:22:17

That's not very empowering, right?

414

: 00:22:19

Whereas what you said, you looked at

it analytically, you're like, okay.

415

: 00:22:22

I see this, and this is the cause,

and now this is the effect, and now

416

: 00:22:26

I don't want this neuron connection

in my brain anymore, so we're gonna

417

: 00:22:30

replace it with something different.

418

: 00:22:32

I like that.

419

: 00:22:33

It's very it's more along the lines

of scientific, but more stoic, little

420

: 00:22:37

stoicism, Buddhist approach to it.

421

: 00:22:39

I like that.

422

: 00:22:41

Lil: Yeah, totally.

423

: 00:22:42

And it's not something that

came easily for me either.

424

: 00:22:45

Now I can talk about it in a chronological

way and the steps that I took, but it

425

: 00:22:50

wasn't like that in the beginning, I also

went through that stage of grief, because

426

: 00:22:55

my dad actually he passed away in 2019.

427

: 00:22:59

And yeah, with your loss.

428

: 00:23:02

It sucked.

429

: 00:23:03

I'm not gonna lie.

430

: 00:23:04

I can't imagine.

431

: 00:23:05

Yeah.

432

: 00:23:06

Oh, yeah, it sucked real fucking bad,

but It was almost like a catalyst When

433

: 00:23:12

I started going through the stages of

grief and I entered my angry stage, at

434

: 00:23:16

first I was mad at the world and then

I was mad at him for dying and then All

435

: 00:23:22

of these childhood memories started

to pop up like all of the positive

436

: 00:23:26

ones because you start to reminisce

about, your parent and whatever.

437

: 00:23:30

And along with those memories

came the not so good times, right?

438

: 00:23:34

And so I was very angry for a really long

time about how my parents chose to handle

439

: 00:23:40

certain things and I was so mad at them.

440

: 00:23:43

Like, why couldn't you have been better?

441

: 00:23:46

But the thing that we need to

remember is that the childhood

442

: 00:23:51

wounds that your parents give you

are their own childhood wounds.

443

: 00:23:54

Yes,

444

: 00:23:55

Jenny: exactly.

445

: 00:23:56

They're human.

446

: 00:23:57

Lil: Exactly.

447

: 00:23:59

That was a really big realization for

me , because I know for a fact that

448

: 00:24:03

my dad did a much better job raising

me than his parents did with him.

449

: 00:24:08

But that doesn't mean that

he didn't traumatize me.

450

: 00:24:10

Of course he did.

451

: 00:24:11

Yeah.

452

: 00:24:12

But thinking about him

453

: 00:24:14

as a child experiencing that trauma

that he then passed on to me was really

454

: 00:24:20

eye opening and it was so much easier

to release the anger and to forgive

455

: 00:24:26

him for that because he was also just

a little kid who developed those coping

456

: 00:24:32

mechanisms that he then passed on to me.

457

: 00:24:34

Jenny: Oh gosh, you that is so good.

458

: 00:24:36

I'm so glad you brought that up.

459

: 00:24:38

I think that helps to empathizing

with what our parents have gone

460

: 00:24:43

through, like you said, and kind

of part of this process for me too

461

: 00:24:47

was taking them off of a pedestal.

462

: 00:24:50

Oh, it's my parents.

463

: 00:24:51

No, they're humans.

464

: 00:24:53

They're going to fuck up.

465

: 00:24:54

They're going to make mistakes.

466

: 00:24:55

They have their own stress and

trauma and troubles and all of that.

467

: 00:24:58

And like you said, of course, some

of that's going to transfer to you.

468

: 00:25:02

My mom and I talk about this a lot.

469

: 00:25:03

My mom and I always get in philosophical

discussions, but we were talking

470

: 00:25:06

about this recently about generational

wounds, I guess you'd say, or trauma.

471

: 00:25:11

And we really thought about, like, how

much my mom has healed from what was given

472

: 00:25:17

to her by her mom, but how my grandma

healed what was given to her by her mom,

473

: 00:25:21

my great grandma, and so forth and so on.

474

: 00:25:23

It really does improve if

you look at the big picture.

475

: 00:25:26

People are doing their best.

476

: 00:25:28

They're healing what they

can in their generation.

477

: 00:25:31

And Now it's on us to do a little

bit more work and heal a little

478

: 00:25:36

bit more and pass on a little

less trauma, I guess you'd say.

479

: 00:25:39

I will say I'm so grateful to be

alive at this time because this

480

: 00:25:44

podcast wouldn't have existed.

481

: 00:25:45

Maybe it wouldn't even existed

20 years ago, 10 years ago, but

482

: 00:25:49

definitely wouldn't be talked

about or even open to discussion.

483

: 00:25:53

Like when my mom was a teenager in

twenties or thirties, definitely not.

484

: 00:25:57

So that's where as an elder millennial,

I will pat myself on the back and

485

: 00:26:01

say, I am part of the generation

who helped normalize mental health.

486

: 00:26:05

Yeah, absolutely.

487

: 00:26:07

I'm kidding, but it's true.

488

: 00:26:09

We are the ones like who really

started Hey, it's okay to

489

: 00:26:12

say this doesn't feel right.

490

: 00:26:13

Or I don't like this or therapy's good.

491

: 00:26:15

I should go to therapy or.

492

: 00:26:17

Self care in general isn't selfish.

493

: 00:26:18

It doesn't mean you're an asshole.

494

: 00:26:20

Yeah,

495

: 00:26:21

Lil: self care is not

496

: 00:26:22

Jenny: selfish.

497

: 00:26:23

We've been talking about some heavy stuff.

498

: 00:26:25

Let's go a little lighter.

499

: 00:26:27

I know you must have a story or two

about a success you had where you felt

500

: 00:26:33

like a freaking rock star, where you

accomplished one of your people pleaser

501

: 00:26:37

goals, felt like you're on cloud nine.

502

: 00:26:39

You get the drill.

503

: 00:26:40

What stories do you have

504

: 00:26:41

Lil: for us?

505

: 00:26:42

I can't believe I didn't think

of this story until literally

506

: 00:26:44

20 seconds ago, which because

this is a huge story in my life.

507

: 00:26:48

So a few months ago,

this was back in January.

508

: 00:26:51

I was hanging out with some friends

that I hadn't known for very long.

509

: 00:26:57

I was in Portland for a work

trip, and they invited me over,

510

: 00:27:03

we were going to have dinner.

511

: 00:27:04

But as we were hanging out,

the couple started making some

512

: 00:27:09

pretty uncomfortable remarks.

513

: 00:27:11

the aura in the room was very negative,

and I was very uncomfortable with

514

: 00:27:15

the stuff that they were saying.

515

: 00:27:17

They had actually picked me up from

my hotel and brought me over to

516

: 00:27:20

their house, so I also didn't want

them to like, drive me back, and Oh,

517

: 00:27:23

you felt trapped, that's the worst!

518

: 00:27:25

I was like, trapped, and after a moment,

I was like, I don't have to be here.

519

: 00:27:30

I don't have to take this.

520

: 00:27:33

So I took my limited funds that I

had and I ordered myself an Uber.

521

: 00:27:37

Good for you.

522

: 00:27:38

Once the ride was confirmed,

I gathered all my shit and I

523

: 00:27:42

was like, you know what guys?

524

: 00:27:44

I'm going to head out.

525

: 00:27:46

I'm not feeling well,

which was a lie, but yeah,

526

: 00:27:49

Jenny: that's all right.

527

: 00:27:50

You don't always have to go

guns blazing stirring the pot

528

: 00:27:52

.

Lil: A good old easy phrase is the best way.

529

: 00:27:56

Totally.

530

: 00:27:57

, they wanted to know more.

531

: 00:27:58

Like they kept asking me questions

like, Oh no, what's wrong.

532

: 00:28:00

Do you want us to drive you back?

533

: 00:28:02

And I was like, Nope, don't drive me back.

534

: 00:28:04

I'm good.

535

: 00:28:05

I'm just going to go.

536

: 00:28:06

I didn't explain why I didn't

care what they thought about

537

: 00:28:11

me, which is like huge for me.

538

: 00:28:13

This was like the first time that I'd

ever done anything like that, where I

539

: 00:28:16

left an uncomfortable situation without

giving explanations and without giving

540

: 00:28:20

a fuck what they thought about me.

541

: 00:28:22

Oh my God.

542

: 00:28:23

Oh, I was like, adrenaline was surging.

543

: 00:28:26

I was shaking everywhere.

544

: 00:28:27

And so I go outside to wait for my Uber.

545

: 00:28:30

It was supposed to be there

in two minutes, but it took

546

: 00:28:32

like way longer than that.

547

: 00:28:33

The woman ask me if I wanted

to talk or if I was okay.

548

: 00:28:38

And I was like, Nope, my Uber

is going to be here in a minute.

549

: 00:28:41

I wasn't rude to her, but

I also wasn't friendly.

550

: 00:28:44

And I just said, I'm good.

551

: 00:28:45

Please leave me alone.

552

: 00:28:47

So she left.

553

: 00:28:48

Thankfully, and my Uber arrived,

which was this lovely woman,

554

: 00:28:53

which I was like, Oh, good.

555

: 00:28:54

Like a girl.

556

: 00:28:55

Thank you.

557

: 00:28:56

Yeah.

558

: 00:28:56

Yeah.

559

: 00:28:57

Yeah.

560

: 00:28:58

Unfortunately, but

561

: 00:28:59

Jenny: yes, I totally get it.

562

: 00:29:01

Lil: Yeah.

563

: 00:29:01

Because I was distraught because it was

the first time I'd ever done anything like

564

: 00:29:04

that, and I was feeling very emotional.

565

: 00:29:07

So I enter this Uber, and

something I should note is

566

: 00:29:11

that my, my dad and I use signs

567

: 00:29:15

to communicate from

him from the afterlife.

568

: 00:29:18

One of them is hummingbirds, and I

actually have a hummingbird tattoo.

569

: 00:29:23

Oh, it's beautiful.

570

: 00:29:24

Yeah.

571

: 00:29:25

On my arm.

572

: 00:29:26

And so I enter this Uber, and after

a minute, I look up and hanging

573

: 00:29:31

from her rear view mirror, she had

two little crystal hummingbirds.

574

: 00:29:35

Stop.

575

: 00:29:36

Yeah.

576

: 00:29:37

Oh my God.

577

: 00:29:38

That's amazing.

578

: 00:29:40

And that's when I fucking lost my shit.

579

: 00:29:44

Falling in the back of this Uber.

580

: 00:29:46

And this poor woman's Oh

my gosh, are you okay?

581

: 00:29:48

And I told her, this was the first time

in my life I had the courage to leave

582

: 00:29:52

a situation I was uncomfortable in

without caring to explain and without

583

: 00:29:57

caring what they thought about me.

584

: 00:29:58

And she said, good job is what she

told me, which it felt so good.

585

: 00:30:03

Yeah.

586

: 00:30:03

Oh my God.

587

: 00:30:04

That's amazing.

588

: 00:30:05

I told her, I was like, my dad and

I've been feeling like he's been around

589

: 00:30:09

me and he loved hummingbirds and here

you are rescuing me from the situation

590

: 00:30:13

with your crystal hummingbirds.

591

: 00:30:15

And she goes, if that isn't confirmation

because my son who passed away

592

: 00:30:19

five years ago loved hummingbirds.

593

: 00:30:23

Oh my god, you're gonna make me cry.

594

: 00:30:25

And that's why, yeah, that's

why she had the little crystal

595

: 00:30:27

hummingbirds on her rear view mirror.

596

: 00:30:29

It was just such a beautiful thing to not

only be like proud of myself for walking

597

: 00:30:35

away from that situation, but it felt like

I was getting this beautiful blessing of

598

: 00:30:39

being able to connect with this person.

599

: 00:30:42

, with the hummingbirds and our

past loved ones oh my gosh.

600

: 00:30:46

It was so powerful.

601

: 00:30:47

Jenny: And the fact that she had

two hummingbirds, you said, right?

602

: 00:30:50

Lil: Yeah.

603

: 00:30:51

Jenny: Oh, it was like

her son and your dad.

604

: 00:30:53

Oh my gosh.

605

: 00:30:54

Yeah, I'm tearing up.

606

: 00:30:55

Oh

607

: 00:30:55

Lil: my

608

: 00:30:55

Jenny: god.

609

: 00:30:56

Wow.

610

: 00:30:56

You can't make this stuff up.

611

: 00:30:58

You just can't.

612

: 00:30:59

Lil: I couldn't believe it.

613

: 00:31:00

Jenny: You can't make

this spiritual stuff up.

614

: 00:31:02

It's amazing.

615

: 00:31:02

Lil: I honestly couldn't believe it

when it happened, and it was something

616

: 00:31:05

that I was not expecting at all, but,

yeah, I definitely felt like my dad

617

: 00:31:10

was like, clapping, applauding me from

the other side and said, You know what?

618

: 00:31:15

Here's your reward.

619

: 00:31:16

I'm gonna send you a person that

you're gonna feel safe with.

620

: 00:31:19

And, you know I'm here for ya,

cause Here's the hummingbirds.

621

: 00:31:23

Jenny: Wow.

622

: 00:31:24

And to feel seen and heard and to know

that there are kind people out there

623

: 00:31:28

too, that's a nice reminder that

they all aren't like those people who

624

: 00:31:31

you were , trying to get away from.

625

: 00:31:33

It was really

626

: 00:31:34

Lil: interesting too, cause I

got back to my hotel room and

627

: 00:31:36

I immediately blocked them.

628

: 00:31:37

I was like, fuck that.

629

: 00:31:39

You don't

630

: 00:31:39

Jenny: know.

631

: 00:31:39

Oh, I thought I was going to ask

you do you have to ever say that?

632

: 00:31:41

See them again or

633

: 00:31:42

Lil: no?

634

: 00:31:43

Never.

635

: 00:31:43

I don't even live in Portland, so like

I'll probably never see them again.

636

: 00:31:47

But , they tried to call me, they like

messaged me and I was like, I'm not

637

: 00:31:51

even gonna waste my time and energy

explaining myself to you because it was

638

: 00:31:55

a boundary that I had already established

with them that they decided to cross.

639

: 00:31:59

And so I was like, I'm not even

going to go there with you.

640

: 00:32:02

Like block.

641

: 00:32:03

Jenny: And they knew.

642

: 00:32:04

They knew exactly what they were doing.

643

: 00:32:05

Don't ask.

644

: 00:32:06

Absolutely.

645

: 00:32:06

You knew.

646

: 00:32:07

Don't ask.

647

: 00:32:07

Apologize.

648

: 00:32:08

Yeah.

649

: 00:32:09

Oh, the fact that you didn't

overexplain yourself is freaking huge.

650

: 00:32:13

I feel like that you just graduated

people pleaser recovery high school with

651

: 00:32:18

that because over explaining yourself

is like the go to people pleaser.

652

: 00:32:24

Yeah.

653

: 00:32:25

I don't know response.

654

: 00:32:26

It's fallback habit, when you

put a boundary down, you feel

655

: 00:32:29

like you have to explain yourself

because you're like, I did it, but

656

: 00:32:31

wait, I don't want you mad at me.

657

: 00:32:32

So this is why I'm doing

658

: 00:32:34

Lil: Yeah, it was surprisingly

not hard that time.

659

: 00:32:37

I think it was because I had that big

confirmation that I was doing the right

660

: 00:32:41

thing that I didn't second guess myself

after, so that was super helpful.

661

: 00:32:45

It's interesting, because that

night, I dreamt that I proposed

662

: 00:32:51

to myself, and that I said yes.

663

: 00:32:53

Oh my gosh, wow!

664

: 00:32:56

It was it was a very powerful

experience, because it's yes, I'm

665

: 00:32:59

finally, Committing to myself, and I'm

always going to choose myself, I'm not

666

: 00:33:03

going to minimize my needs, or allow

people to cross my boundaries without

667

: 00:33:08

walking away, because I need to choose

myself, first and foremost, always.

668

: 00:33:14

Jenny: You have given us tons of

great advice and great scenarios

669

: 00:33:19

that you've worked through.

670

: 00:33:21

Is there any book or speaker or

event, whatever it may be that you

671

: 00:33:26

would recommend that really helps

teach you these foundational skills?

672

: 00:33:31

Lil: I think a really big eye opening

book for me was Adult Children

673

: 00:33:36

of Emotionally Immature Parents.

674

: 00:33:39

Jenny: Oh, I've never heard of

675

: 00:33:40

Lil: it.

676

: 00:33:41

, I Listened to it a few years ago.

677

: 00:33:44

I probably need a refresher now, but

it was really interesting to be able to

678

: 00:33:49

see how parenting styles and behaviors

affect a child and how that manifests

679

: 00:33:56

in adulthood and the flip side of what

is a better way to handle those things.

680

: 00:34:02

It also touches on how to

essentially gentle parent your own

681

: 00:34:06

parents to help you have a more

healthy relationship with them.

682

: 00:34:10

I think that everyone who has had

emotionally immature parents should

683

: 00:34:15

listen to or read that book, because

it was really eye opening for me.

684

: 00:34:19

Jenny: Amazing.

685

: 00:34:20

Okay.

686

: 00:34:20

And it is posted in the show notes.

687

: 00:34:22

So y'all can just click on the link

and see what we're talking about.

688

: 00:34:25

Thank you so much for recommending that.

689

: 00:34:27

Lil: One thing that I heard this saying a

while ago and it was very profound for me.

690

: 00:34:33

It goes, you may be the sweetest peach on

the tree, but not everybody likes peaches.

691

: 00:34:38

Ah, yes.

692

: 00:34:40

That's so

693

: 00:34:41

Jenny: good.

694

: 00:34:42

Lil: It is.

695

: 00:34:42

It's amazing because you can alter

yourself and minimize yourself

696

: 00:34:46

all you want, but you're not

going to be liked by everybody.

697

: 00:34:50

And that's okay.

698

: 00:34:51

When you experience rejection from

other people it's redirection to

699

: 00:34:56

help you find your actual tribe,

the people who will love you and

700

: 00:34:59

accept you just the way that you are.

701

: 00:35:01

And if you continue to try to

change yourself or minimize yourself

702

: 00:35:04

to appease those who don't like

peaches, you're never going to find

703

: 00:35:08

Jenny: your tribe.

704

: 00:35:09

. I'm writing down what you just wrote.

705

: 00:35:11

Rejection is a redirection.

706

: 00:35:14

Lil: When we take rejection so

personal, it stops us from moving

707

: 00:35:20

forward to where we're supposed to go.

708

: 00:35:23

And actually that reminds me, there is

one more book that I'd like to recommend.

709

: 00:35:27

Are you going to say the four agreements?

710

: 00:35:29

Jenny: Yes.

711

: 00:35:32

I didn't mean to steal your

thunder, but I just had this

712

: 00:35:34

feeling of things you were saying.

713

: 00:35:35

I'm like, Oh my God, be

impeccable with your words.

714

: 00:35:37

Don't make assumptions.

715

: 00:35:38

I had a feeling you'd read that.

716

: 00:35:40

Yes.

717

: 00:35:42

Lil: That was amazing.

718

: 00:35:42

It's like you read my mind.

719

: 00:35:44

The Four Agreements was amazing.

720

: 00:35:45

It really does help you see things

through in a different perspective.

721

: 00:35:49

And the practice of not taking

things personal is difficult,

722

: 00:35:53

especially if it's something that

you've been doing over a long time.

723

: 00:35:56

But I think it definitely goes hand

in hand with people pleasing behavior.

724

: 00:36:00

Because when you're not taking things

personal, then you're not worried about

725

: 00:36:05

other people taking things personal.

726

: 00:36:06

Because if they do, that's

something that they need to work on.

727

: 00:36:09

Yes.

728

: 00:36:10

And it has nothing to do with you.

729

: 00:36:11

That's the thing that has also really

helped me with my people pleasing.

730

: 00:36:15

Nothing ever has anything to do with me.

731

: 00:36:16

Everyone else, including

myself, is always projecting.

732

: 00:36:20

So I'm not going to worry

about people taking what I said

733

: 00:36:23

wrong or taking it personal.

734

: 00:36:26

If it's the right person, they'll

either understand or they will ask

735

: 00:36:30

me to clarify and ask questions.

736

: 00:36:32

Jenny: Exactly, you hit it spot on.

737

: 00:36:36

I always try to run my actions

through the four agreements too.

738

: 00:36:39

It's am I being impeccable with my words?

739

: 00:36:41

And did I do my best in that interaction?

740

: 00:36:43

If I did those two things then

I'm not going to feel bad.

741

: 00:36:46

I wasn't an asshole.

742

: 00:36:47

Maybe my best was only 50

percent of what I'm capable of.

743

: 00:36:50

But in that space and time where

I was mentally, emotionally,

744

: 00:36:54

physically, did I do my best?

745

: 00:36:56

Okay.

746

: 00:36:57

And if not, like humble

yourself and say, you're sorry.

747

: 00:37:00

I think the other side of it too, is it's

not a permission slip to go out guns a

748

: 00:37:04

blazing and be an asshole to people either

but I totally get what you're saying.

749

: 00:37:08

Exactly.

750

: 00:37:08

You can't take it personally,

which yeah that's hard.

751

: 00:37:12

And,

752

: 00:37:14

Lil: to give others and yourself grace,

people are going to make mistakes,

753

: 00:37:19

someone might step on my triggers too.

754

: 00:37:22

And I might not act or react the way

that I want to be, but that happens.

755

: 00:37:29

And to know and understand

that everyone has their own

756

: 00:37:33

buttons that need to be healed.

757

: 00:37:35

And maybe perhaps.

758

: 00:37:37

Sometimes they get pushed, I think

that's a big part of not taking things

759

: 00:37:40

personal because everyone is healing.

760

: 00:37:42

Everyone's got their own story.

761

: 00:37:44

Everyone's got different things going on.

762

: 00:37:46

So giving them grace and giving

yourself grace for when you do mess up.

763

: 00:37:50

That's a huge part of healing too.

764

: 00:37:52

Definitely.

765

: 00:37:53

Jenny: This is reminding me, I

feel like this is a good place to

766

: 00:37:56

tell this quick little, parable,

proverb, it's a little story.

767

: 00:38:00

It's about this Zen master who was

out in a boat in the middle of a lake.

768

: 00:38:03

Have you heard this before?

769

: 00:38:05

I don't think so.

770

: 00:38:06

I think, I can't remember

where I read this.

771

: 00:38:07

I did not write this.

772

: 00:38:08

This is very old.

773

: 00:38:10

It's like a, I think it's a Chinese

proverb I think I read this in The

774

: 00:38:13

Power of Now from Eckhart Tolle.

775

: 00:38:15

Don't quote me on that.

776

: 00:38:16

But anyway, the short version of

it is there's this Zen master, so

777

: 00:38:21

you're thinking, meditates all the

time, very peaceful, very calm, very

778

: 00:38:25

demure, as they would say on TikTok.

779

: 00:38:27

Very demure, very

cutesy, very calm, right?

780

: 00:38:30

Very mindful.

781

: 00:38:32

So he just, he gets up early at

the sunrise and decides to take

782

: 00:38:35

his wooden boat out to the middle

of the lake for the sunrise to

783

: 00:38:38

meditate and there's no one around.

784

: 00:38:41

It's very peaceful.

785

: 00:38:42

Sounds amazing.

786

: 00:38:43

So he goes out there in

the middle of the lake.

787

: 00:38:44

He's floating on this boat.

788

: 00:38:46

His eyes are closed

because he's meditating.

789

: 00:38:48

And then all of a sudden this other

boat slams into his boat, sends him

790

: 00:38:52

rocking and he instantly gets angry.

791

: 00:38:56

And this mind goes to who do

you think you are in this entire

792

: 00:39:00

lake and you bump into my boat?

793

: 00:39:02

Don't you see I'm meditating?

794

: 00:39:04

This is my version of it.

795

: 00:39:07

But then he opens his eyes and he

sees that the other boat is empty.

796

: 00:39:12

And then he realizes that the anger

is within him, not outside of him.

797

: 00:39:17

The anger is within

him, not outside of him.

798

: 00:39:21

When I read that, That changed my life.

799

: 00:39:23

For those of you who are not catching

it, what it means is that the whole

800

: 00:39:28

world is constantly bumping into you.

801

: 00:39:29

And if it agitates you, it's because

there's a little spark of something that

802

: 00:39:32

needs to be healed within you, right?

803

: 00:39:34

The anger or frustration, all

the feeling, any emotion is

804

: 00:39:38

within, it's not outside of you.

805

: 00:39:41

So if you're taking things personally,

that's a sign that there's something

806

: 00:39:45

within you that isn't feeling heard,

seen, that needs to come to the

807

: 00:39:48

surface to be examined and healed.

808

: 00:39:51

Lil: Absolutely.

809

: 00:39:52

100%.

810

: 00:39:53

Doing those little check ins with

yourself when you start feeling a

811

: 00:39:59

negative feeling, whether that is anger,

jealousy, frustration, whatever it is.

812

: 00:40:05

A lot of the time I think we

tend to attribute it it's because

813

: 00:40:07

this person is doing something.

814

: 00:40:09

Jenny: Yes.

815

: 00:40:10

But

816

: 00:40:10

Lil: when we go back and we do that

little bit of a self reflection and

817

: 00:40:14

try to get to the root of why something

like that is frustrating, you'll find

818

: 00:40:19

a lot of the time that it's like you

said, something that you need to heal.

819

: 00:40:23

Jenny: When you start looking at

things like that, it really does

820

: 00:40:26

help you take some more personal

responsibility, but also I feel that

821

: 00:40:30

is what empowers you because you feel

helpless if it's the outside world.

822

: 00:40:35

Causing your pain.

823

: 00:40:36

The outside world's always

going to be a pain in the ass.

824

: 00:40:39

So you gave away all your power.

825

: 00:40:40

But if you look inward and realize

that's where everything lies,

826

: 00:40:44

now you can do some changing.

827

: 00:40:45

Lil: I actually have a

quick example about that.

828

: 00:40:47

I'm training this new person

at work who took my old job.

829

: 00:40:52

And I found myself getting frustrated

the other day because I had explained

830

: 00:40:55

something to her and then she

didn't do it or something like that.

831

: 00:40:59

And I was getting like

annoyed at her and stuff.

832

: 00:41:03

But when I was

833

: 00:41:04

truly honest with myself, I was

really more annoyed because she's

834

: 00:41:08

actually really efficient and she's

a really hard worker and I was

835

: 00:41:13

feeling threatened that maybe she was

doing a better job in that position

836

: 00:41:19

than I was when I was in that job.

837

: 00:41:20

Oh, interesting.

838

: 00:41:21

And so it has absolutely nothing

to do with her at all and really

839

: 00:41:25

more about my own insecurity of was

I doing as good a job as she is?

840

: 00:41:29

Jenny: That's some deep reflection.

841

: 00:41:30

That's huge.

842

: 00:41:31

Not everyone is at that point to

be able to handle that, right?

843

: 00:41:34

That's amazing.

844

: 00:41:36

Lil: It definitely took a lot of practice

and, it, you get to it by going through

845

: 00:41:42

whatever resistance you're feeling.

846

: 00:41:44

Because I feel like at first, my

instinct was always to deny that.

847

: 00:41:48

I was having envious feelings because

maybe I was too proud to admit

848

: 00:41:54

that I was having those feelings

because, oh my gosh, I'm so zen.

849

: 00:41:57

I'm so healed.

850

: 00:41:59

But no it's always a work in progress.

851

: 00:42:01

as I practice it more and more, it's

more automatic now when I have a negative

852

: 00:42:07

feeling bubble up, and it's more automatic

my process of looking inward, but it

853

: 00:42:12

definitely took a lot of effort at first.

854

: 00:42:14

It's hard, and it's almost like being

In front of a mirror looking at things

855

: 00:42:19

that maybe you feel shame about and

that's really hard to be face to face

856

: 00:42:23

with the things that you feel shame

about, but when you're able to move

857

: 00:42:27

past it, forgive yourself and do better,

it really opens up a huge door for

858

: 00:42:32

healing and internal healing evolvement.

859

: 00:42:36

Jenny: There's definitely a payoff

at the end through the suffering.

860

: 00:42:39

There's light at the end of the tunnel.

861

: 00:42:41

And sometimes you'll

regress and it's fine.

862

: 00:42:43

That's why this podcast

is called Recovering.

863

: 00:42:46

Doesn't say recovered.

864

: 00:42:48

I don't think I'll ever be recovered.

865

: 00:42:50

I always go back to brain science.

866

: 00:42:51

You're rewiring your brain.

867

: 00:42:54

And for me, I'm 41.

868

: 00:42:55

This has been 41 years of

repetitive belief systems.

869

: 00:43:01

It's not just going to change overnight.

870

: 00:43:03

Those neuron connections are hard wired.

871

: 00:43:06

So it's going to take a lot of repetition

the other way to disengage that and

872

: 00:43:12

make the other one the dominant path.

873

: 00:43:15

I asked all of my guests.

874

: 00:43:17

What is their bumper sticker statement?

875

: 00:43:20

What is their piece of advice

that they put on a bumper sticker?

876

: 00:43:23

But I feel like you

already dropped that gem.

877

: 00:43:25

What was it again?

878

: 00:43:26

Lil: My mantra that I think will help a

lot of people cause it helps me a lot is

879

: 00:43:30

you may be the sweetest peach on the tree.

880

: 00:43:33

But not everybody likes peaches.

881

: 00:43:34

Jenny: Yes.

882

: 00:43:35

It's so good.

883

: 00:43:36

I can visualize it with a peach tree.

884

: 00:43:38

It's perfect.

885

: 00:43:39

I love that so much.

886

: 00:43:40

Yeah.

887

: 00:43:41

And there are peach pickers out there

and they might like a bushel of peaches,

888

: 00:43:45

but you don't have to get hung up on

the people who like apples or pears.

889

: 00:43:50

I love it.

890

: 00:43:51

It's a great analogy.

891

: 00:43:52

.

Lil: There's a tribe out there for everybody.

892

: 00:43:54

You just got to find the right one.

893

: 00:43:55

So don't hang your hat on the ones

that it's just not right for you.

894

: 00:43:59

Exactly.

895

: 00:44:00

This was super cool.

896

: 00:44:01

And I love the conversation and this was

897

: 00:44:04

Jenny: great.

898

: 00:44:05

Thank you for being vulnerable and

sharing your stories and your struggles

899

: 00:44:09

and how you persevered through them.

900

: 00:44:11

And the fact that you made

it an empowering perspective

901

: 00:44:15

of I'm still healing.

902

: 00:44:17

It's not a weakness.

903

: 00:44:18

It's a strength.

904

: 00:44:19

I think that's a huge

message that you shared.

905

: 00:44:21

I'm grateful for you for doing that.

906

: 00:44:23

Thank you.

907

: 00:44:23

Lil: It's a lot harder to heal, I

think, and to be vulnerable than it

908

: 00:44:29

is to just avoid it and move forward.

909

: 00:44:34

Yes.

910

: 00:44:35

But the payoff is worth it.

911

: 00:44:36

Oh my gosh.

912

: 00:44:37

The payoff is so amazing.

913

: 00:44:40

It's so empowering If you've never

back into your own cup when you first

914

: 00:44:44

start doing it, that shit's addicting.

915

: 00:44:47

Like I, there's just absolutely

no way that I will never

916

: 00:44:51

not pour into my own cup.

917

: 00:44:52

Because I've spent way too much

of my life not doing that, and

918

: 00:44:56

now that I've done it, it feels

so good that I'm never going back.

919

: 00:45:01

Jenny: It's one of those things

like you can't unknow it.

920

: 00:45:03

You can't unsee it.

921

: 00:45:04

You can't un experience it.

922

: 00:45:06

Yep.

923

: 00:45:07

You're inspiring me to do that.

924

: 00:45:09

I've still struggled

sometimes with balance.

925

: 00:45:11

It's hard being a business

owner and finding time for

926

: 00:45:15

yourself, but you're right.

927

: 00:45:17

It's really important.

928

: 00:45:18

Lil: I always think of , are

you into tarot at all?

929

: 00:45:21

Yeah.

930

: 00:45:22

Jenny: Tarot and I like Oracle decks

too, like angel cards and stuff.

931

: 00:45:26

Lil: Totally.

932

: 00:45:27

Yeah.

933

: 00:45:27

one of my cards that I really like

is temperance, a temperance card.

934

: 00:45:32

Cause she's balancing.

935

: 00:45:34

She's balancing all of the elements

along with having one foot in the

936

: 00:45:39

ground and one foot in the divine.

937

: 00:45:42

One of the quotes that I had in that

book, for my deck it says, The difference

938

: 00:45:46

between an amateur and a professional is

that the professional makes it look easy.

939

: 00:45:52

Yeah.

940

: 00:45:53

Balancing all of the human things, It's

difficult, and you're gonna mess it up.

941

: 00:45:59

When you see other people who

seemingly are really good at balancing

942

: 00:46:02

it, it's because probably they

have a lot of practice doing it.

943

: 00:46:05

So that's all you need,

is just more practice.

944

: 00:46:07

Jenny: I think that's a

perfect point to end on.

945

: 00:46:09

Don't have to do everything at once.

946

: 00:46:11

Just start small.

947

: 00:46:13

Lil: You don't have to see the whole

staircase to take the first step.

948

: 00:46:16

Jenny: Exactly.

949

: 00:46:17

I appreciate you taking time to share

your stories and speak with me today.

950

: 00:46:21

This has been amazing.

951

: 00:46:22

I'm so glad to have met you

from half a country away.

952

: 00:46:26

Lil: Yeah.

953

: 00:46:27

Super cool.

954

: 00:46:27

Thank you for having me.

955

: 00:46:28

This was lovely.

956

: 00:46:30

Thank you.