Life of a College Student: Setting Boundaries, Mental Health Tips, and Honoring Your True Self - an interview with Kyai and Angel

Jenny: 00:00:00

Wow.

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Senior year for both of you.

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It's crazy.

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Yes.

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I can't believe all that you have both

accomplished so far and your what?

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21 years?

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That's just amazing to me.

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And as your former teacher, those

of you who are listening, you're

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like, who are these people?

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They're two amazing former students

of mine who are now off pursuing their

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dreams in college and then beyond.

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that.

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So that's A perfect time to introduce

yourselves to whoever wants to go first.

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Angel: Yeah, of course..

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My name is Angel Rivera.

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I grew up in Myrtle Beach, and

I also grew up in the Bronx.

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Right now I'm in school studying

psychology with a premed concentration

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and a minor neuroscience.

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So I'm definitely more science

busy, more medical busy.

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But that's because I want to try

to pursue a career in psychiatry.

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I went into psychology first to

learn more about Human behavior.

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And also because I feel like I had a lot

of tendencies and people pleasing and I

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feel like that was one of the reasons why

I went into psychology was to understand,

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like, why am I feeling like I need

to put other people before myself.

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That's what been going on

with while being at USC.

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And like I said, one more year and

then I'll be on to medical school.

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Jenny: That is phenomenal.

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I can't wait to hear what you have to

say about the neuroscience aspect of it.

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I love learning about the brain, so

I can't wait for you to share what

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you've learned about people from

a psychological point of view.

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Kyai: How about you?

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Kyai?

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Yeah.

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So my name is Kyai Ward.

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I'm from Conway, South Carolina, and

I go to Charleston Southern university

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and I'm studying music therapy

and yeah I've always loved music.

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since a very young age.

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And I've also just always

loved helping people.

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And so music therapy is

definitely putting that together.

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It's bringing psychology in with music and

I think it's really cool and I love it.

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Jenny: It's amazing how you

both found perfect fits.

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Angel: I love the fact that Kyai is

going through that field, because it also

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combines a little bit of like somewhat

what I'm doing, because I did a lot

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of clinicals at a medical facility,

I did see a lot of music therapists

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go in there and, help treat patients.

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For example, I saw a woman that came in

with a harp, and she was going to help a

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patient that I was dealing with leukemia.

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That was just very sweet and wholesome.

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And I'm just like, oh man, that's

something that Kyai is going to be doing,

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is going into certain facilities and stuff

and providing that type of treatment.

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And I love it.

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It's amazing.

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Jenny: I love the fact that

you're both willing to be

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vulnerable and talk about this.

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I can't wait to learn your point of

view, being from a different generation.

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of a generation that grew up fully

on technology, which I think has just

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changed how we socialize in general.

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So I'm dying to hear not only

your experiences about people

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pleasing, but even how you define

it, how it shows up in your life.

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So I guess we could

start at the beginning.

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when did you realize that

you were a people pleaser?

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Angel: I feel like that's very difficult.

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I would say middle of high

school, whenever TikTok was

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starting to become a big thing.

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TikTok became such a good a media hub for

different types of content and different

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types of certain behaviors that can

be matched up to like people pleasing.

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So I would see funny little,

skits of people pleasing behaviors.

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And I feel like some basic ones

are, just not knowing how to

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say no whenever somebody might

ask for something from you.

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I might ask Hey, could you come

to eat dinner with me on this time?

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And you might have a conflict, but you

want to put that person's feelings first.

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And it might be putting a

funny skit in TikTok, but that

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was something I related to.

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So that was one way that

I really figured it out.

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Jenny: Oh, wow.

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To think that someone was just creating

this little creative video project

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and it literally woke something up in

you and literally changed your life.

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Angel: Like a whole spiral.

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I

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Kyai: guess for me, now that I

think about it, I really think

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I've always been a people pleaser.

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And I think it stemmed from, me being

younger, wanting to be liked by people.

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I have ADHD.

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I'm on the neurodivergent side.

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I didn't have too many friends.

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I was always seen as like

the weird, crazy person.

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It was high energy and always.

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So I think it really stemmed from

wanting to have friends and wanting

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people to accept me for my little

quirky or crazy personality.

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I guess from grade school is

when I started people pleasing

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wanting to be friends with

people and wanting to be liked.

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Angel: Yeah.

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I have a question though, like, when

did you start to recognize those

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behaviors as something that's oh

that can be seen as people pleasing?

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Kyai: Probably, okay, I would say probably

really recently, because I don't think

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I recognize how much of a people pleaser

I am until I'm like, people ask me to

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go somewhere and I'm like, Oh yeah,

I'll go, just to make them happy, but I

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don't want to go, or I don't want to do

it, or, I don't want to consent to this

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or that, or, and it's you really just,

Have to be in charge of your own mind.

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I didn't realize that I wasn't

in charge of my own mind until

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probably a couple of months ago.

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Angel helps me all the time with this.

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I asked him, like, am I

doing this because I want

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to do it or am I doing this?

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And he's babes you're doing

that for the other person.

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Like, Do you really want to do this?

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And I'm like, no.

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So it really takes a lot of thinking.

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I'm like, okay.

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Do I want to do this?

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Or do I want to just

make this person happy?

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I need to put myself first, and

I need to do what I want to do.

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Angel: I feel like it is a habit that

was ingrained, because the only reason

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why I asked like when you recognized

it, was because I feel like it was a

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habit that was instilled with me for

so long even since I was a child, and

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that was just due to the environment

that I was put in, where I felt like

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I needed to people please in order

to have that sense of security.

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With also having ADHD, I feel like

my sense of rejection was so high,

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that I didn't want to be rejected

by other people, and that would

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make it Nobody understood why.

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They were like, why are you so upset if

this group of people doesn't like you?

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And I would just be like,

that's just how I feel.

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I would go far beyond my reaches

and try to help out another person.

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which means even putting on my own needs

first to have that validation and to have

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that sense of security within myself.

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But I know that for other people, it can

be very difficult to have that balance.

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in general, because when you do

get that approval, it just fires

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up those receptors in your brain

of let me keep on doing this.

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It's a good reward.

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If I keep on continuing with this

behavior, then I should be in the clear.

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But really you should want to have

those receptors fire for yourself.

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Kyai: Exactly.

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Angel: Yeah.

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Kyai: Or it's people will like me.

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I want to do this more.

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It's the feeling, but I've noticed

that I feel so much better when

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I just do what I want to do.

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I feel strong.

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I feel powerful.

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I am making my own decision.

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I have so much power, it's crazy.

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And I'm speaking like this because

I've literally just had a whole

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recovery moment from people pleasing.

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It was definitely ingrained in

me for a long time, I will say.

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I was

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Angel: say, Miss Leckey, have

you ever had experiences where

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you've had people pleasing issues?

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Jenny: Oh, yeah.

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I actually just talked about

this in another episode

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that I was such a good girl.

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I was such a good student,

such a good employee.

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Keep the peace.

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You don't rock the boat.

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Some of it is my personality,

but some of it is people pleasing

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in that I was avoiding conflict.

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I didn't want to rock the boat.

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I just wanted to please, whoever

it is, my boss, my parent,

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the teacher, whoever it was.

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How self aware you are right now- I

was not that self aware at your age.

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This is amazing.

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I've just seen such a shift,

even in my decade of teaching.

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I saw such a shift of self awareness.

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I remember, discussions with my students

in the first year versus the last one.

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I think we were studying to kill a

mockingbird and I was sitting around in

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a circle discussing it and the students

took over And they got talking about

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their personal biases and they were

saying, Oh no, that's just my ego talking.

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That's not truly how I feel.

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That's just, shading my perspective

and I'm what's going on.

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This is amazing.

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I know people in their sixties and

seventies don't even know what the ego is.

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So the fact that you all are so self

aware and you're reflecting on what you're

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doing and why you're doing it is amazing.

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Angel: I feel like that's such a

good thing with our generation.

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I feel like that's one thing

that we're so good at, is able

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to self reflect and self identify.

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Oh, like maybe look at it through this

perspective because of the life experience

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that we've had, and that might not amount

to somebody else's life experience.

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And that goes the same

way for people pleasing.

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Not all people pleasing is the

exact same, because I feel like each

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person has different experiences

that shape that to a certain degree.

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We are good in that sense that we're able

to identify those behaviors and ourselves.

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Yes.

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I think it's also an issue because a

lot of my friends who go to therapy and

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stuff the therapist always tells them

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it's hard to even treat people who

are in our generation because we're

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so self aware that it's like, why

don't we try to help ourselves?

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But it can become a self fulfilling

prophecy of just trying to.

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Help ourselves and understand ourselves,

but at the same time wrapping up into

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those same habits again and again.

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Jenny: Yes, the same thing with

my generation because we were the

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first ones to really normalize

taking care of your mental health.

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I feel like we're the therapy crusaders.

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With that, I was just watching

this video and I felt so seen about

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being an over intellectualizer.

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Everything we were just talking about,

understanding how we feel and why we feel

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it, is intellectualizing people pleasing.

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But I think it perpetuates

still, because The only way to

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heal people pleasing is to feel.

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You can't think your way out of

people pleasing, and that's why I

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love the phrase, Tolerate the tension.

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Can I tolerate the tension

of saying no to someone?

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If I can't tolerate that tension, I'm

never going to stop people pleasing.

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I'm just not.

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Angel: Yeah, it's getting used to that

feeling, almost like that guilty feeling,

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but it's almost an automatic response.

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And you are right, learning to

sit with that feeling and knowing

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that's okay, and knowing that

it's not the end of the world.

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The person's not gonna think that

you're a malicious person who's

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trying to scheme against them.

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Kyai: If they do think that,

then they're not your people.

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Because if you just boundaries down to

say, hey, this is not what I want to

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do, this is actually what I want to do.

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If they really are upset about

that or they get offended, then

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maybe they're not your people.

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They should respect boundaries.

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Jenny: It's true, and they should

have your well being at heart.

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So if you're having to cancel

plans, even just simply because

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I just don't have it in me.

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If they care about you, they should

want your well being to come first.

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Kyai: That's also true.

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I was like To say It also feels so

good to say no Sometimes I'm like,

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especially for me cause I'm just

learning that I can actually say no,

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Jenny: no, no, no, no.

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Angel: At first I wasn't comfortable with

it, but now I feel like the idea of owing

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somebody an explanation is null and void.

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You don't owe anybody an explanation.

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If you don't want to go to an event,

or you don't want to do something

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because you don't feel comfortable.

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You don't owe anybody an explanation.

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learning to be okay with that and just

saying no because you personally want to

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put that boundary down is so impactful.

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I try to do this like building

up day to day habits in life.

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I just try to be as honest as I can with

how I'm feeling and communicate that

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because if you don't communicate it,

then how is somebody going to realize

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that you don't want to go to that.

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Sometimes it is exhausting to

have to share your true feelings.

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Where I feel like self

pleasing is the easy way to go.

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Where you're just like, you know what,

I don't want to have to deal with it.

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Let me just say yes and let me do it.

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At first it was a lot of energy,

but now it's not a lot of energy

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because I've learned to take that

reaction and feeling and mitigate it.

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Because I'm realizing that it's

for me and it's for myself.

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So how

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Jenny: did you do that?

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Do you have a technique or strategy

that's helped you process those

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emotions when they come up?

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What's something that people

can start doing when they

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feel that tension or guilt?

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Angel: What I mainly do is one, I

either distract myself where might

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send a text message or I might,

send out an email, letting somebody

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know and then I immediately.

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Work on a puzzle or something, or

play Sudoku, or play, a small game to

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distract my brain from those feelings,

but I feel like the better strategy

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that I've learned to take on now is

to sit with that feeling, understand

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it, process it, and try to calm myself

down from that initial response.

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Deep breathing techniques, count down,

one, two, three, four, holding my breath,

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and then one, two, three, four, out.

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And then I do that for a

good 30 seconds to a minute.

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I also do journaling afterward

throughout the day, to clear out those

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feelings out on paper, to say, you

know, I did, I did feel uncomfortable,

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but I did do these techniques, and

this is how I felt after I did it.

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Kyai: Yeah.

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Okay.

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What else did you do?

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I definitely would say journaling

too, and just trying to be more

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self aware of like when I'm

wanting to please someone like me.

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There's patterns with me.

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I've noticed that I'll even people

please when it comes to Oh, what

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restaurant or what food do you want?

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And it's wait, but I already

have an idea of what I want.

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Why don't I just tell them.

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Or it'll be like, they

have a restaurant in mind.

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They'll tell me and I really don't

want to go there, but I'm just

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like, okay, let's just do that.

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It starts with little things like that.

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Angel's actually really

helped me with this.

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I'll bring it back to him again.

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He's super honest with me all the time.

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I'm trying to be like that.

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I'm like, do I want this?

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No, I actually like this.

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even if something's not funny.

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I used to laugh at jokes that

I didn't think were funny.

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When someone says something that's

wrong or out of pocket and I don't

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have the courage to speak up or

speak my mind about something.

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I just want to keep the peace yes,

in some situations it's not worth the

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battle, but if they feel free enough

and comfortable and confident to speak

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their mind, then who says I shouldn't.

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Jenny: I don't know if you had this

experience as you started shifting

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your behaviors since you're not so well

practiced at it I found myself like word

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vomiting stuff out, or sometimes maybe my

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boundary setting would be a

little more harsh than necessary,

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just because I had to get it out

and I didn't know what to say.

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So I was just like, No,

I don't want to arm.

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Did you have that happen?

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Angel: Yes, I would say all the time,

like, whenever I was first, because

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I wasn't gonna say I had to build my

confidence pretty young, because I

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came out during like middle school,

as gay, as like men, and then now going

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into that I had to really know myself.

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So then people could try to

put those labels onto me.

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It was from a very young age and

getting to middle school, people would

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be like, oh you're this and you're

that, because of this certain label.

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At first I would take it because again, I

had those old people phasing tendencies

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where I would be like, Oh, yes, sure,

just shrug it off and would ignore it.

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But then as I became older, I was like,

no, I need to be more self assured and

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let people know who I am and what I

identify as and who is me as a person

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and what I do and what I don't like.

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And at first, it did

come up as word vomit.

309

: 00:13:51

Or I would say oh no, cut people

off or if I disagreed with them or

310

: 00:13:55

I didn't want to be around their

energy, I would just not talk to them.

311

: 00:13:58

And that's not healthy either.

312

: 00:14:00

Completely shutting them out isn't

a way that you should do it either.

313

: 00:14:03

Just shutting somebody out

because of a boundary that they

314

: 00:14:05

didn't maybe know about from you.

315

: 00:14:07

That should be your responsibility.

316

: 00:14:08

How are they going to know

if you don't express that.

317

: 00:14:10

Learning to build that communication and

setting that boundary does take trial

318

: 00:14:13

and error, but After a couple years of

practicing that the best way I can and

319

: 00:14:17

learning for myself and learning from my

reactions I was able to go from Being

320

: 00:14:21

more shy and timid to like I know I am

and I am confident in it and you should

321

: 00:14:25

be able to Accept a yes or no for me.

322

: 00:14:27

Kyai: And then you have the people that

are used to you just people pleasing

323

: 00:14:31

then when you finally come out and

you're like, I'm setting my boundaries.

324

: 00:14:35

They get upset and they try to be like,

325

: 00:14:37

Angel: Oh, we never did this before.

326

: 00:14:39

And that's we're doing it now

327

: 00:14:40

Kyai: because it's I've never

slept with Andres before.

328

: 00:14:42

You're right.

329

: 00:14:42

Jenny: You're not playing the role

in their life that you used to.

330

: 00:14:46

And it rocks their world a little bit.

331

: 00:14:48

Angel: if people like that are upset

by those tendencies being taken away,

332

: 00:14:52

then it shows that they were using

those tendencies for their advantage.

333

: 00:14:56

A friendship should never be

something that, I'm always going

334

: 00:14:58

to expect this person to say yes, so

I'm just always going to ask them.

335

: 00:15:01

Kyai: Yeah and that could

be for any relationship.

336

: 00:15:03

Doesn't have to just be friends.

337

: 00:15:04

Family dating.

338

: 00:15:06

That could go for anything, I feel.

339

: 00:15:08

Angel: It's good to have mentors that

are in your corner and on your side,

340

: 00:15:11

that can look at these situations

from an outside point of view.

341

: 00:15:14

To see how they would have addressed

the situation, and how it could be, more

342

: 00:15:17

beneficial to me or less beneficial.

343

: 00:15:19

Jenny: That's a good point because

sometimes our emotions cloud our judgment.

344

: 00:15:24

Especially when you're doing something

so vulnerable like saying no to someone.

345

: 00:15:28

It helps to get someone else's

perspective and that helps you

346

: 00:15:31

see the bigger perspective.

347

: 00:15:33

Angel: That's why I love making

those connections, different people.

348

: 00:15:36

Because it's different ways

I can look at situations.

349

: 00:15:38

Obviously you shouldn't go for

your friends for every situation.

350

: 00:15:40

Try to build that inner guidance and

that inner self once you do that trial

351

: 00:15:43

and error of setting those boundaries.

352

: 00:15:45

But in the process of doing that, asking

for help and guidance is definitely

353

: 00:15:49

nothing you should , away from

354

: 00:15:50

.

Kyai: It's like you go to different people.

355

: 00:15:52

I would tell you, I only go to two people

that I trust with situations like that.

356

: 00:15:57

And that's Angel and , one of

my other best friends, Brooklyn.

357

: 00:16:01

And, I'll ask them, Hey,

is this the right thing?

358

: 00:16:03

and I'll get both perspectives because

usually I'll have different perspectives

359

: 00:16:06

for each of them, like angels, usually

the more cutthroat no, this is wrong.

360

: 00:16:11

Like, because I can be too

nice, and I need that sometime.

361

: 00:16:15

And then Brooklyn's okay, wait,

let's see from their point of view.

362

: 00:16:17

And so it's you have both of them.

363

: 00:16:20

Then I'll just meet in the middle and

make my decision of what I want to

364

: 00:16:22

do or how I want to take a situation.

365

: 00:16:24

Angel: I will say, I think that

Kyaia is always just saying that more

366

: 00:16:26

cutthroat only because I think another

thing with people pleasing is I've

367

: 00:16:29

learned to stop myself whenever I've

known that there is no way that they

368

: 00:16:34

can understand my perspective and

what I'm trying to share with them.

369

: 00:16:37

For example, once you set a boundary,

if that person doesn't want to respect

370

: 00:16:40

that, then you can try explaining to

them a different way, to understand

371

: 00:16:44

where you're coming from, but at

the end of the day, if they are not

372

: 00:16:47

getting the boundaries that you're

setting, then there is no point in

373

: 00:16:50

continuing with that relationship any

further, at least in my personal opinion.

374

: 00:16:54

Kyai: I can't agree with that more

because I've recently been distancing

375

: 00:16:59

myself from people too, that don't

feel aligned with me anymore

376

: 00:17:02

because I'm figuring out myself.

377

: 00:17:04

I'm becoming okay.

378

: 00:17:05

You know, with what I believe in,

who I am and when you find your

379

: 00:17:08

people it's almost like a new birth.

380

: 00:17:10

You find your people, and you feel

like, what did you do without them?

381

: 00:17:14

As opposed to the people that,

you backwards in a lot of ways.

382

: 00:17:18

You know what I mean?

383

: 00:17:19

And so, yeah it's definitely

a good feeling when you

384

: 00:17:21

find your group of people.

385

: 00:17:22

And you find who you are when

you're around those people.

386

: 00:17:26

Because you can be who you are, Exactly.

387

: 00:17:28

Jenny: I wanted to ask you both, do

you all have any specific moments or

388

: 00:17:33

memories or experiences where you were

first trying out setting boundaries

389

: 00:17:37

and stopping the people pleasing?

390

: 00:17:39

Angel: More recently I did have a

situation where this is a good moment

391

: 00:17:42

for me I set a boundary and I was

really proud of myself because I

392

: 00:17:45

feel like this is something that I

might have overlooked in the past.

393

: 00:17:48

So recently I was in a previous

relationship and There was just

394

: 00:17:52

something that they did that I didn't

feel personally comfortable with.

395

: 00:17:55

Usually, in that instance, I would have

ignored it, and I would have not said

396

: 00:17:58

anything to them, I would have, been

like, oh, no, it's fine, but I really

397

: 00:18:01

didn't feel comfortable with that.

398

: 00:18:02

We were in a closed space, and they were

being a little too affectionate to me,

399

: 00:18:06

and I didn't really appreciate that.

400

: 00:18:07

I decided to let him know the next day,

that I didn't feel comfortable with that.

401

: 00:18:11

Had to set that foot down.

402

: 00:18:12

And unfortunately he didn't,

understand that boundary.

403

: 00:18:14

So I tried telling him a different way.

404

: 00:18:17

That was something that I was

really proud of that I did put my

405

: 00:18:19

foot down and say you know what?

406

: 00:18:20

I don't feel comfortable with this

and I don't want this to occur again.

407

: 00:18:22

And how was he going to

know unless I tell him?

408

: 00:18:24

I was able to tell him.

409

: 00:18:25

Now it's a lot better between us.

410

: 00:18:27

Good for you.

411

: 00:18:28

That's huge.

412

: 00:18:29

That was a recent success that's really

good progress that I was able to make

413

: 00:18:33

compared to maybe how I would be a couple

of years ago with certain relationships

414

: 00:18:36

where I wouldn't say anything because I

wanted to keep that person in good graces.

415

: 00:18:40

Jenny: Good for you for speaking up

because if you hadn't, that would

416

: 00:18:43

have just built and built probably

would have happened again and again.

417

: 00:18:45

And then anger and resentment

would have built up and then.

418

: 00:18:49

Angel: Yep.

419

: 00:18:49

I could have built this all up and could

have freaking exploded on him one day.

420

: 00:18:52

And he would have been like

where is this coming from?

421

: 00:18:54

But instead I took that feeling and I

was like, at least it's going to hurt

422

: 00:18:57

now, but it's not going to hurt as much

as if I keep it in and save it for later.

423

: 00:19:00

Jenny: Amazing.

424

: 00:19:01

Angel: Let's get out of the way and rip

425

: 00:19:03

Jenny: the Band Aid off.

426

: 00:19:04

Yeah,

427

: 00:19:05

Kyai: how

428

: 00:19:06

Jenny: about you?

429

: 00:19:08

Kyai: Yeah, so this was

actually really recent.

430

: 00:19:11

This was a success.

431

: 00:19:13

I'm a part of an organization that I don't

really feel is aligning with me anymore.

432

: 00:19:18

they have shows all the time and they

asked me to do a gig and I would have

433

: 00:19:22

said yes, but I have a concert with my

choir the day before and the day after.

434

: 00:19:26

It's a lot.

435

: 00:19:27

And also, it takes a lot of

energy working with people there.

436

: 00:19:32

And I really had to Put my foot down.

437

: 00:19:34

I even went to Angel.

438

: 00:19:35

I was like, are they going to not like

me if there's this, that, and the third?

439

: 00:19:39

Are they ever going to

ask me to do this again?

440

: 00:19:40

And I was just like, I have

to do what's best for me.

441

: 00:19:44

I'm in school, this is not a priority

for me, and after I said, no, I felt

442

: 00:19:49

a weight, just come off my shoulders

because all my energy was so worked

443

: 00:19:55

up about what am I going to say?

444

: 00:19:57

How am I going to say this?

445

: 00:19:58

how am I going to work around this?

446

: 00:19:59

How am I going to, work it out?

447

: 00:20:01

if I'm not able to do

something, I can't do it.

448

: 00:20:04

I can't do everything.

449

: 00:20:06

It made me much less stressed

about everything when I was

450

: 00:20:10

able to just say I couldn't.

451

: 00:20:13

How did they respond?

452

: 00:20:14

And they didn't even respond bad.

453

: 00:20:16

That is really what taught me to

not put so much energy into worry

454

: 00:20:21

and, into working up about how am I

going to people please the situation?

455

: 00:20:25

No, be honest.

456

: 00:20:26

You don't even know the outcome of

what, is going to come out of it.

457

: 00:20:29

Just be honest.

458

: 00:20:30

And so that moment has

really helped me even more.

459

: 00:20:34

I think a big milestone in recovery

for me and people pleasing and learning

460

: 00:20:38

how to put that boundary and say no,

especially when I know that I'm going

461

: 00:20:42

to be overwhelmed, and not even just

that, but if I don't want to do it.

462

: 00:20:45

I don't have to do it.

463

: 00:20:46

Jenny: Good for you.

464

: 00:20:47

and not being consumed by the stories

that our brains like to tell us.

465

: 00:20:52

Yeah.

466

: 00:20:52

Our brains are very creative and

really like to create that narrative

467

: 00:20:56

of how angry the person's going to be.

468

: 00:20:59

Exactly.

469

: 00:21:00

With all of that said, You're

both at a little bit different

470

: 00:21:04

phases in your recovery.

471

: 00:21:06

Do you have any daily habits that

you put in place to help you?

472

: 00:21:12

Kyai: Yes, I'll definitely say journaling

has been a really big thing for me.

473

: 00:21:18

Journaling at the end of my day,

even if it's not a day that I had

474

: 00:21:22

to put my foot down or anything.

475

: 00:21:23

Just letting my thoughts go

on paper helps me process.

476

: 00:21:28

I also really enjoy meditating

when I can find the time to do it.

477

: 00:21:33

I really enjoy clearing my head.

478

: 00:21:34

What kind of meditation do you like to do?

479

: 00:21:37

Not really guided.

480

: 00:21:38

I've done guided before.

481

: 00:21:39

I kind of like to just put on Some

meditation music on my TV or like

482

: 00:21:43

beach sounds or stuff like that.

483

: 00:21:45

And then I'll sit on my

carpet and clear my mind.

484

: 00:21:48

When I meditate, I don't

want to think about anything.

485

: 00:21:50

I just want to be in the moment and not

think I feel like, especially as a person

486

: 00:21:55

with ADHD, my brain is always somewhere.

487

: 00:21:57

And sometimes it's, it makes

it very difficult to even

488

: 00:22:00

meditate because of that.

489

: 00:22:02

So I think just clearing my mind,

how hard it may be anyway, I try

490

: 00:22:07

to think of a safe, happy place.

491

: 00:22:10

If my thoughts kind of wander,

I try not to be hard on myself.

492

: 00:22:13

I just try and be graceful and trail my

brain back to where it's supposed to be.

493

: 00:22:17

Cause I feel like if I'm hard on

myself, while I'm thinking I'm,

494

: 00:22:19

I'm just going to get frustrated.

495

: 00:22:21

Let me just put myself back

where I was and I'll continue

496

: 00:22:24

our, you know what I mean?

497

: 00:22:25

Nice.

498

: 00:22:26

I

499

: 00:22:26

Jenny: love that.

500

: 00:22:27

What kind of journaling do you, are you

just like brain dumping kind of thing or?

501

: 00:22:32

Yes, definitely

502

: 00:22:33

Kyai: brain dumping.

503

: 00:22:34

For my whole day, what I do I just.

504

: 00:22:37

Start from the beginning of my day and

journal about everything I've done,

505

: 00:22:40

how I thought about certain situations.

506

: 00:22:41

I felt a certain way, whether

it be negative or positive, just

507

: 00:22:44

getting it all out, helps to

process every event of my day.

508

: 00:22:48

It's really been very helpful.

509

: 00:22:50

Jenny: Thank you for sharing that.

510

: 00:22:51

I'm sure that'll help

someone who's listening.

511

: 00:22:53

Kyai: Yes.

512

: 00:22:54

And one more thing.

513

: 00:22:55

There's a podcast, the psychology of your

twenties, another really good podcast.

514

: 00:23:00

And it goes into all kinds of mental

health issues with your twenties

515

: 00:23:03

and just for the younger crowd.

516

: 00:23:05

Like if, That has really helped me too.

517

: 00:23:07

it just helps in validating how I feel

and yeah, I definitely recommend that.

518

: 00:23:12

Jenny: Okay.

519

: 00:23:13

I'll tag them in the show notes.

520

: 00:23:14

Angel: Love that.

521

: 00:23:15

I was going to say definitely take

out one of those habits, which is

522

: 00:23:17

journaling, because I love to journal.

523

: 00:23:19

That mainly helps what I have

in my brain throughout the day.

524

: 00:23:23

And I put it into very short

sentences because I cannot

525

: 00:23:27

focus for long journaling.

526

: 00:23:28

I always thought journaling had to be,

like, oh my god a whole entire page of

527

: 00:23:31

what your day was and blah, blah, blah.

528

: 00:23:33

I avoided journaling for so long.

529

: 00:23:35

I thought I had to do this big monologue.

530

: 00:23:37

No, you don't have to.

531

: 00:23:38

You can do a couple

sentences about your day.

532

: 00:23:40

You can do a couple keywords and feelings.

533

: 00:23:43

I'm more of a bullet list person.

534

: 00:23:44

I just jot it down how I'm feeling.

535

: 00:23:46

Even sometimes like draw out certain

images that make me feel a certain way.

536

: 00:23:50

Almost like how I'm feeling inside.

537

: 00:23:52

Also I listen to binarial beats.

538

: 00:23:54

Sometimes that helps me out.

539

: 00:23:56

I love binarial beats.

540

: 00:23:57

And there's actually been studies

that have shown that it helps with

541

: 00:23:59

neural connectivity and neural

synergy and helps with certain brain

542

: 00:24:03

states and certain brain waves.

543

: 00:24:05

Jenny: Can you explain to

everyone what they are?

544

: 00:24:08

Angel: Binaural bass is almost

like you have two different

545

: 00:24:09

frequencies in each ear.

546

: 00:24:11

So for example, one headphone would have

a six hertz and another headphone would

547

: 00:24:14

have ten hertz to get you into a lower

hertz frequency, which is mainly used for

548

: 00:24:19

more sedative types of brain function.

549

: 00:24:22

So for example, when you're going to

bed, you might put lower frequencies

550

: 00:24:25

because those are lower vibrations

in your brain and that's how

551

: 00:24:27

they can connect with each other.

552

: 00:24:29

When you're sleeping, whenever you're on

more high alert, you might hit like the

553

: 00:24:32

five hundreds or a thousand frequencies.

554

: 00:24:35

And you can find a bunch

of them on YouTube.

555

: 00:24:37

On Spotify.

556

: 00:24:38

There's actually playlist I use

for people who have ADHD that

557

: 00:24:41

specialize in high frequency sounds.

558

: 00:24:43

I use it all the time to help

me focus on my different studies.

559

: 00:24:47

it also helps me calm down on

certain tasks and behaviors and

560

: 00:24:50

helps me build certain habits up.

561

: 00:24:52

Jenny: Perfect.

562

: 00:24:53

that sense sometimes.

563

: 00:24:54

You might like the

guided meditations by Dr.

564

: 00:24:57

Joe Dispenza.

565

: 00:24:59

He has the ones you can buy an

audible breaking the habit of

566

: 00:25:02

being yourself, but he has tons of

different guidance that you can get.

567

: 00:25:06

I've had almost out of body

experiences with these and it's

568

: 00:25:09

visualizing, but you go out of your

body and into like outer space, like

569

: 00:25:15

you are floating out of your body.

570

: 00:25:17

They're amazing and magical, and it's

like this full mind body spirit reset.

571

: 00:25:23

They're wonderful, especially

if you're feeling really

572

: 00:25:25

anxious or all over the place.

573

: 00:25:27

I don't even know how to explain

them, you just have to experience it

574

: 00:25:30

for yourself.

575

: 00:25:31

I

576

: 00:25:31

Angel: oh my God.

577

: 00:25:31

I love that resource because

that sounds very therapeutic.

578

: 00:25:36

It really is.

579

: 00:25:37

Jenny: Yeah,

580

: 00:25:38

It's different.

581

: 00:25:38

But since you're already on that

path, I think you'll really like that.

582

: 00:25:42

Angel: Definitely.

583

: 00:25:42

Kyai: It's so funny.

584

: 00:25:43

Like in music therapy, we

do guided imagery music.

585

: 00:25:46

So we'll either have music playing

in the background or we'll, do

586

: 00:25:49

arpeggios on the guitar and we'll

ask people that you think of your

587

: 00:25:53

favorite place and what do you taste?

588

: 00:25:55

So it's, it's like meditation, but we

call it guided imagery or bonnie method

589

: 00:25:58

of guided imagery because it was created

by helen bonnie I think what was her name?

590

: 00:26:03

But yeah, it's really cool thing in music

therapy and sometimes i'll do that too

591

: 00:26:07

Jenny: Because literally sounds

like a guided meditation.

592

: 00:26:09

Yeah,

593

: 00:26:10

Kyai: but we bring live music

to it so it's really cool.

594

: 00:26:12

Angel: That is so cool.

595

: 00:26:14

Jenny: I wanted to ask, do

you all have any books or

596

: 00:26:17

speakers that you'd recommend?

597

: 00:26:19

Angel: I do have this one

TikToker that I listened to.

598

: 00:26:21

Her name is Mel Robbins.

599

: 00:26:23

she's a doctor, a therapist, she

does a lot of mixed variety of topics,

600

: 00:26:27

mainly focused on college students

and their mental health but also

601

: 00:26:30

focuses on habits that relates to a

lot of younger people, such as people

602

: 00:26:34

pleasing and different topics on burnout

and different mental health issues.

603

: 00:26:40

I followed her recently,

around a month ago.

604

: 00:26:42

So she's been a good that I've been using.

605

: 00:26:44

Jenny: Awesome.

606

: 00:26:45

Angel: Personally, I feel like

you learn a lot more within

607

: 00:26:46

your community and what you do.

608

: 00:26:48

For example since I go to USC, it makes

it easier because I'm able to participate

609

: 00:26:52

in more clubs and organizations.

610

: 00:26:53

I'm part of this club called

Active Minds that talks about

611

: 00:26:56

psychology and mental health.

612

: 00:26:58

We do certain events that are

for mental health related issues.

613

: 00:27:01

And that kind of makes me feel more

comfortable because I have a community.

614

: 00:27:04

And that also changed my perspective

on it as well because I was able

615

: 00:27:07

to learn more information on

different habits that I could do

616

: 00:27:10

such as drawing because I'm

into drawing and I love art.

617

: 00:27:12

And then reading and meditating

to build more self loving habits.

618

: 00:27:16

Beautiful.

619

: 00:27:17

Being with organizations that

are close to you can help you

620

: 00:27:20

gain a larger perspective and

a more collective perspective.

621

: 00:27:23

Jenny: Great suggestion.

622

: 00:27:24

Thank you for that.

623

: 00:27:25

How about you, Kyai?

624

: 00:27:27

Kyai: Other than that

podcast, I don't know.

625

: 00:27:28

And I'm not being biased, but I really

enjoy listening to your videos, Ms.

626

: 00:27:32

Leckey, about people pleasing.

627

: 00:27:33

Jenny: No,

628

: 00:27:34

Kyai: I'm not even, I'm

not even trying to like,

629

: 00:27:38

Jenny: Oh, really?

630

: 00:27:39

Thank you so much.

631

: 00:27:40

That is like, wow,

that's a huge compliment.

632

: 00:27:42

Thank you.

633

: 00:27:43

Kyai: I do.

634

: 00:27:43

And I, And I think it comes from

knowing you as an educator , I don't

635

: 00:27:47

know, it's like humanizing, it's like,

okay, , she has these issues too.

636

: 00:27:50

She was my teacher.

637

: 00:27:51

Like it happens to everyone.

638

: 00:27:53

It's, grounding and I

related to a lot of stuff.

639

: 00:27:56

It's definitely helpful.

640

: 00:27:58

Definitely.

641

: 00:27:58

Wow.

642

: 00:27:59

Thanks so

643

: 00:27:59

Jenny: much for that.

644

: 00:28:00

Yeah.

645

: 00:28:01

You know, There's the fallacy of

the like adults haven't figured out.

646

: 00:28:04

I still feel like a kid.

647

: 00:28:06

I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing.

648

: 00:28:07

What are you talking about?

649

: 00:28:08

Angel: I feel like that's such a

great thing about more of millenials.

650

: 00:28:12

They're more open.

651

: 00:28:13

Let's be relatable, let's be

more honest about how we feel.

652

: 00:28:15

Cause sometimes you don't

know what we're doing.

653

: 00:28:17

I'm like, even though I'm

21, do I know what I'm doing?

654

: 00:28:19

No.

655

: 00:28:19

Does somebody who knows what they're

doing, like, when they're, like, 30 or 40?

656

: 00:28:22

Or even when you're probably 50?

657

: 00:28:23

No.

658

: 00:28:24

Nobody knows what we're doing.

659

: 00:28:25

And that's the beauty of it all.

660

: 00:28:27

Jenny: I think that's the exciting part.

661

: 00:28:29

I don't want to know what I'm doing I

don't want to have it figured out.

662

: 00:28:31

That takes away the excitement.

663

: 00:28:33

I don't know what's around the corner.

664

: 00:28:38

Kyai: That's actually a good way to

think about it because I feel like

665

: 00:28:41

growing up, it's always the structure,

go to college, get this degree, go to

666

: 00:28:45

work until you retire, that's boring.

667

: 00:28:48

You should be excited about new

things in your life and, experiencing

668

: 00:28:52

new things, having new jobs.

669

: 00:28:53

working at a bunch of, you know, I

think that makes life more exciting.

670

: 00:28:57

Why would you just want to work

until you retire and then die?

671

: 00:28:59

It's all about experiences.

672

: 00:29:01

I love what you said.

673

: 00:29:02

That's boring and it's not exciting

if you don't know what's gonna

674

: 00:29:06

happen I like that point of view.

675

: 00:29:08

Some

676

: 00:29:08

Jenny: people thrive in that and I get it.

677

: 00:29:11

I have people in my life who thrive in

that routine and security and have never

678

: 00:29:16

moved away Which is fine or never really

traveled or They work at the same job.

679

: 00:29:20

That's fine.

680

: 00:29:21

Some brains need that, but

my brain can't handle that.

681

: 00:29:24

That makes me feel like a

rat in a cage, like a carrot.

682

: 00:29:29

Y'all probably didn't get that Smashing

Pumpkins reference, but yes, it

683

: 00:29:33

makes me feel like a rat in a cage.

684

: 00:29:36

I feel like that ties in with

people pleasing because the culture

685

: 00:29:41

is shifting to self exploration

even more so and going after your

686

: 00:29:46

dreams and all these experiences.

687

: 00:29:49

But some people are still stuck in

the, I guess you'd say the old matrix

688

: 00:29:53

of, no, duty is to stay here and

do that and don't break the mold.

689

: 00:29:58

And people feel like they're Abandoning

relationships or they're letting people

690

: 00:30:03

down by maybe putting their dreams first.

691

: 00:30:07

I went through that with

moving away multiple times.

692

: 00:30:10

I went through different phases of that.

693

: 00:30:12

I lost friendships over it

because people were silently

694

: 00:30:15

resentful of me for going for it.

695

: 00:30:18

So it does take some courage.

696

: 00:30:21

And it is a form of anti people

pleasing and healing to actually

697

: 00:30:24

go for what you want in life.

698

: 00:30:26

Angel: You are so right.

699

: 00:30:27

To branch off on that a little

bit, there is a cultural people

700

: 00:30:29

pleasing that occurs as well.

701

: 00:30:31

I try to appeal to almost like the

social norms what's acceptable with,

702

: 00:30:35

your family and in large respect.

703

: 00:30:37

For example, in Hispanic culture,

it's not really acceptable to be more

704

: 00:30:41

feminine, but that was something that I

wanted to live my truth and I'm okay with

705

: 00:30:44

being a little bit more feminine, more

flamboyant, more fun, more like zesty.

706

: 00:30:47

I love that.

707

: 00:30:50

I have to live with that.

708

: 00:30:50

I'm comfortable with that.

709

: 00:30:51

And I want to live my truth and express

that about myself, but I feel like with

710

: 00:30:55

that cultural barrier sometimes it's

a lot more difficult because it's more

711

: 00:30:59

of a group people pleasing because it's

different with people pleasing one on

712

: 00:31:02

one but people pleasing for a whole

entire culture is a whole different ball

713

: 00:31:06

game and it's a lot more pressure..

714

: 00:31:09

Taking that stance and telling yourself

no like, I'm gonna go this way because

715

: 00:31:12

that's who I am, takes a lot of strength.

716

: 00:31:14

And that's something that, I I find

beautiful in creating your own

717

: 00:31:16

life through non people pleasing.

718

: 00:31:19

With people pleasing, you're straying

into other people's lives and to what they

719

: 00:31:21

want you to do and their image of you.

720

: 00:31:23

When you should do it for yourself.

721

: 00:31:25

That can be from people

from organizations.

722

: 00:31:27

Yeah.

723

: 00:31:28

Like that, especially whenever

having to do with religion.

724

: 00:31:31

Having to heal from religious trauma

was such a large step in my journey,

725

: 00:31:36

because again, it was like, in my head,

I had a voice where it was like, you're

726

: 00:31:39

gonna, go to hell if you believe in XYZ.

727

: 00:31:42

And I'm like, I'm sorry that

I'm just , living my truth.

728

: 00:31:44

I did have that inner

resentment for a long time.

729

: 00:31:46

when I was back in middle

school and high school.

730

: 00:31:48

I was so against homosexuality.

731

: 00:31:50

I thought it was a sin.

732

: 00:31:51

Kyai: You took the words out of my

mouth I was literally gonna talk about

733

: 00:31:55

inner homophobia and religious trauma

because it's instilled in us You know,

734

: 00:32:00

from a young age or, from whenever

we started feeling that religion

735

: 00:32:05

or whatever, it's instilled in us.

736

: 00:32:07

So it's like, how are we

going to get away from that?

737

: 00:32:11

Angel: but at least recognizing that

voice and being able to be like,

738

: 00:32:13

you know what that's not my voice.

739

: 00:32:14

because sometimes it still does

hurt because that voice does still

740

: 00:32:17

come from somewhere and it does come

from my upbringing and it comes from

741

: 00:32:19

the people who did care about me.

742

: 00:32:21

But also what's in it for my

best interest, because that's

743

: 00:32:23

how they want to perceive me and

how they want to dictate my life.

744

: 00:32:27

How am I going to put myself forward and

how I want to, take out my life instead.

745

: 00:32:30

Great point.

746

: 00:32:32

Was gonna say to segue a little

bit into the quote that I chose, I

747

: 00:32:35

think I'm just gonna share my quote

and then explain it a little bit.

748

: 00:32:37

So I have, People pleasing should

not be meant for self soothing.

749

: 00:32:41

What I mean by this is feel like

people pleasing does become a habit

750

: 00:32:45

of wanting to escape a situation where

you have to feel that discomfort.

751

: 00:32:50

But like I've said earlier in the podcast,

I feel like learning to sit with that

752

: 00:32:53

discomfort and learning to sit with

that guilt even a displeasure within

753

: 00:32:56

yourself is an important step to building

that habit of setting those boundaries

754

: 00:32:59

and understanding that it's okay to feel

that discomfort, but it's what you do

755

: 00:33:03

afterward with it, that's most important.

756

: 00:33:05

Jenny: Oh my gosh, that's amazing.

757

: 00:33:06

That's spot on.

758

: 00:33:07

I could see that on a

bumper sticker for sure.

759

: 00:33:08

I love it.

760

: 00:33:10

And it's a great way to summarize

basically your entire thesis.

761

: 00:33:13

So I'm going to take a little

bit of credit for that as

762

: 00:33:17

your former English teacher.

763

: 00:33:18

That's a thesis statement.

764

: 00:33:20

Angel: Oh my god.

765

: 00:33:21

Full circle.

766

: 00:33:22

Jenny: Yeah, it's full circle.

767

: 00:33:24

Great conclusion.

768

: 00:33:24

Kyai: That's so funny.

769

: 00:33:26

Jenny: That's funny.

770

: 00:33:27

How about you, Kyai?

771

: 00:33:28

What's your bumper sticker?

772

: 00:33:29

Kyai: Yeah.

773

: 00:33:30

So mine a couple months back, I

made a Facebook post just explaining

774

: 00:33:34

how I've never felt more free

when I decide what I want to do.

775

: 00:33:37

And stand up for myself and I'm

just unapologetic about who I am.

776

: 00:33:41

So my bumper sticker quote would

probably be true freedom is owning

777

: 00:33:45

who you are, being unfiltered,

unapologetic, and fiercely confident.

778

: 00:33:49

It's generic, but I think

that really resonates with me.

779

: 00:33:53

Jenny: That's amazing.

780

: 00:33:54

Did you write that?

781

: 00:33:55

I had a little help, but From your brain?

782

: 00:33:58

It's not like someone else's quote?

783

: 00:34:00

Wow, amazing.

784

: 00:34:01

Would you mind saying that again?

785

: 00:34:03

Kyai: Yes.

786

: 00:34:03

True freedom is owning who you

are, unfiltered, unapologetic,

787

: 00:34:08

and fiercely confident.

788

: 00:34:09

Jenny: Oh, I love that.

789

: 00:34:11

That sums up your journey too.

790

: 00:34:12

Exactly what you've described at

the end of your people pleasing era

791

: 00:34:17

.

I think so too.

792

: 00:34:18

I love that so much.

793

: 00:34:20

Thank

794

: 00:34:20

Angel: you.

795

: 00:34:21

I love it.

796

: 00:34:22

Especially like the fiercely confident.

797

: 00:34:23

Wait, what was the last part?

798

: 00:34:26

Wait, say it one more time

799

: 00:34:27

Kyai: Unfiltered, unapologetic,

and fiercely confident.

800

: 00:34:31

Not just confident, fiercely.

801

: 00:34:32

Jenny: There's no apologies

in that confidence.

802

: 00:34:38

I love it.

803

: 00:34:39

That's amazing.

804

: 00:34:40

Y'all, thanks for putting so

much thought into that too.

805

: 00:34:43

I love how it literally

aligned with what both of you

806

: 00:34:46

focused on in your storytelling.

807

: 00:34:48

It's so spot on.

808

: 00:34:51

Kyai: Would be your bumper

sticker you would think about

809

: 00:34:54

Jenny: probably tolerate the tension.

810

: 00:34:57

Yes, I like that.

811

: 00:34:58

Oh, yes, I love that one.

812

: 00:34:59

Or something along the lines of

What story are you telling yourself?

813

: 00:35:04

Ooh.

814

: 00:35:05

What story are you telling yourself?

815

: 00:35:07

These are things I say

to myself all the time.

816

: 00:35:10

It's been wonderful having

you both on the show.

817

: 00:35:12

Thank you for giving some of your time on

your busy schedule as college students to

818

: 00:35:17

be on here and sharing your wisdom with us

life stories and perspectives so candidly.

819

: 00:35:22

I am eternally grateful to you.

820

: 00:35:24

Angel: Oh, thank you.

821

: 00:35:25

I love being on this podcast.

822

: 00:35:25

Thank you so much for

inviting me, inviting Kyai.

823

: 00:35:27

I'd like to talk to you about this.

824

: 00:35:29

It's amazing.

825

: 00:35:30

Jenny: It's so awesome to see what

your former students are doing with

826

: 00:35:34

their lives and staying in touch.

827

: 00:35:36

y'all gave everyone so much

advice and good strategies to

828

: 00:35:40

think of using in their lives.

829

: 00:35:42

Thank you.

830

: 00:35:43

Thank

831

: 00:35:44

Kyai: you so much, Miss Leckey.