Ep 33: Jessie's Journey with Inner Wisdom, Sobriety, and Self-Reflection as a Recovering People Pleaser

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I love that we're finally here

gathered together because we have

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been planning this for a month, a

month, a month and things kept getting

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rescheduled and didn't feel aligned.

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Yeah, the universe was not ready for this.

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First was not ready for this yet.

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Why don't you introduce

yourself so everyone knows who

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is this person behind the mic.

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My name is Jesse.

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I am a human person on this

journey in life with you all.

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I live in north Buffalo.

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It's the greatest place on earth.

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And I have a job.

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I am on the spiritual journey with you.

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I'm a yoga teacher to meditation teacher.

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It's a journey I've been on

for the last four years and it

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has absolutely changed my life.

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So I'm really excited to actually

finish my 500 hour certification . And

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I'm really excited to share the

work of Loren Roshen Camille Marine.

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It's all about tapping into your

inner wisdom, which is all about

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that's how you live, tap into you.

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It's like the greatest gift the

universe ever gave us is all

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this wisdom walking inside of us.

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Well, the opposite of that is

people pleasing, essentially.

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Tapping into your inner wisdom will

help heal your people pleasing because.

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Why look at it as like you're

abandoning yourself, you're

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abandoning your connection percent.

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I know.

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That's what I've been thinking

about because I was trying to

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think about what it means to me.

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Cause I also don't love the term people

pleaser and like wearing that like a sash.

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I think it's when you say no to yourself

and you're saying yes to others versus

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saying yes to yourself and yes to others.

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Oh, yeah.

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So when you're abandoning yourself

, and not giving yourself space to

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access your inner wisdom and who

you are and be authentically you.

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You're no for you.

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And I feel like in this world,

like the one person you should

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be a yes for is yourself.

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That person you get to hang

out with all day every day.

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and when a gift it is, and it's

not being at home in yourself

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is a scary situation to be in.

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I was just curious.

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Do you feel like you've been a

people pleaser your whole life

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Yeah, I definitely resonate

with people pleasing.

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That started pretty early as a child.

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And it was recently thinking about it.

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Cause I just equated, like if I.

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Do all these things for these adults

and I imperfect or do these you know,

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wonderful things that I thought would wow.

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Them that they would love me

more or pay attention to me more.

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Oh, wow.

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Yeah.

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Well, This whole grand people pleasing.

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Doesn't work.

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Hold on to that first, so

long, never really worked.

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Right.

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It's like that fear, but if I don't

do these things, then I'll be alone.

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Yeah.

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I realized that yesterday, I was like,

oh, why did I do that for so long?

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What a Nightmare.

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But then it makes sense because

it's a learned behavior.

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Learned behavior.

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People expect that from you.

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So it's like, yeah, it's not enough.

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So then you have to keep

giving more and more and more.

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It's such a one-sided

experiment, I guess you'd say.

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Yeah.

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And then you keep doing it and you think,

wow, these people are just going to

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remember that I'm doing these things.

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And then they don't.

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They don't.

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Why is this happening?

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yeah.

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I would say, I definitely

resonate with that.

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And I actually read a book.

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It was called how women rise.

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It has like 12 keys.

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And it said, what got you

here won't get you there.

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And one of them was

around people pleasing.

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And I was like, holy shit.

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I've gotten here through people pleasing.

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But it's not, I there's nowhere

to go pass this unless I start

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to make some new choices , so I

started to really think about.

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So new choices in my

life to change my future.

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And it turns out when you're doing a

35 year experiment, that it's not easy

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to make those new choices through.

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Yeah.

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That's a lot of years of learning.

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So it's going to take time to unlearn.

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I think that's the thing too,

is people don't have patients,

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they just want it to happen.

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They want change to happen, but

that's not how the brain works,

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that's not how life works either.

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Yeah.

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No, it was definitely not going

to be an overnight shift.

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You can have aha moments along the

way, which you and I, we're friends

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and we send them voicemails all the

time and we'll have aha moments.

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Like we call them bangers

so they do happen.

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It's just, okay, great.

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You have these Epiphanes but

are you gonna do something?

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What do you do now with it?

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Yeah, I just, I think it was like 2019.

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I had an aha moment.

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I was like, I.

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I think there's another way to live.

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And I wasn't exactly

sure what it looked like.

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I did this.

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Gosh, I did this food challenge

and it wasn't like a food challenge.

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Like I was like trying

to become a supermodel.

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It was about eating better and I took

out caffeine and alcohol and sugar.

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I'm a sugar monster for sure.

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And alcohol ended up quitting

me, which was really, really fun.

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I actually, it was like 30 days

of no drinking and I was like, oh,

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this feels really nice, and I still

drank a little bit after that.

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And then when the pandemic hit

and everybody was like panicking

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about the liquor stores closing.

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I thought, what if I wasn't panicked

about the liquor store closing and I

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just didn't drink through this pandemic

that's going to be like two weeks.

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That feels awesome.

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I'm just going to go to two weeks.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Do you remember that?

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Yeah.

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For two.

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Everyone was panicking.

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Oh my God.

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The liquor stores are closing for

two weeks and I was like, oh, okay.

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yeah, and I stopped drinking that day.

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I've never had a drink since.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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For you yeah.

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Cause I was like, oh, I'll

do this for two weeks.

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And then two weeks turned

into, we didn't know how long.

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And after about two months

of not drinking, I was like,

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oh, I like how this feels.

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It was not like I had a moment

where I was like, that's it I'm

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done with alcohol, blah, blah, blah.

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It quit me, which is pretty fun.

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I love how you worded that too.

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That it quit you.

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It quit me.

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Yeah.

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One of my yoga teacher, so actually

shortly after that started to dive on

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to the spiritual journey which I think

was what was missing for me when I said.

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I know that I can live a different way.

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I decided because there was not a

lot for me to do during the pandemic

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I was working from home and I'd

always been interested in yoga.

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And I found an online yoga teacher

training, and one of the things

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that I love the most about it wasn't

learning how to do different yoga

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moves and teach them to other people

although I do love sharing that.

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It was the yoga off the mat.

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And one of my teachers actually

said that she said Eventually

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when you heal and you do the work.

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Your habits quit you.

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And I was like, Ooh.

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They did quit me and they continue, right.

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It's obviously a journey.

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But that was really interesting.

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Cause that's, that's something

people use to numb is alcohol.

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Yes.

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And it's socially acceptable,

which is interesting.

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Socially acceptable.

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Socially acceptable way of numbing.

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There's a lot of socially

acceptable ways to numb.

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Right.

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Eating.

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Shopping.

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Social media.

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Netflix Bingy.

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I mean, like the list is high

of ways that we are accepting of

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people disconnecting from themselves

and we celebrate a lot of it.

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We do.

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Well, I know you'd mentioned

when we were talking before

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the podcast, your connection to

drinking and people pleasing.

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So I wanted to dive into that

because I can resonate with that too.

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Like as a coping mechanism for

abandoning yourself through

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people pleasing all the time.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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. One of the things that I noticed.

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So it was kind of interesting

because I stopped drinking during

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the pandemic, so I didn't have a

lot of interaction with people.

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it was like a slow transition,

so it didn't hit me in the face.

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But what I noticed is, and especially

I've been sober for almost five

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years, is that I was able to be in

situations often that made me really,

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really uncomfortable because I would

have two or three or four more.

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Yeah, and it's like, oh,

this I can handle this.

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I can be in this situation.

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And it was.

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Fine.

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And they used the word fine loosely.

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It was tolerable.

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It was Tal I could tolerate it.

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It was like, okay, I can tolerate the

situation because I'm sitting here with

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my drink and terribly uncomfortable,

but I'm going to tolerate this.

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And then.

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Sober, I started to suddenly, truly notice

where I was a yes, and where I was like,

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people say, like, where are you a hell?

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Yes.

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It was like, I'm a hell yes for this.

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I love this.

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And I started to want more

of that, but I also could be

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like, Ooh, That is a hard no.

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I do not like being here.

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This is making me really uncomfortable.

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I feel like I want to run.

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I don't know what to do.

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I don't have a drink in my hand.

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What do I do now?,

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seriously.

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That's yeah.

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Very true.

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Yeah.

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I can't make myself immediately

comfortable in this situation.

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Maybe I shouldn't be here.

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Oh, wait, there's a choice.

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Maybe I should not be in this situation.

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That's where I started to make new choices

and I guess the great news in life.

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And when you talk about the people

pleaser journey, it's like, oh, I,

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I said that I was okay with this

before and now I have to be okay with

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this till the end of time, because

there's no new choices for me to make.

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Right.

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Yes.

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Everyone expects you to

always say yes to that.

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So I always teach in yoga and it's

my yoga off the mat training, which

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I am so grateful for that you get to

make a new choice in every moment.

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Well like that, but

I've never practiced it.

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I was married to whatever choice

I had till the end of time.

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And I think when I realized I

could start making new choices.

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Oh, my gosh, how things change so quickly?

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What gave you the permission and

the strength to handle that though

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because I think people pleasers do get

caught and habits because they don't

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have necessarily the skillset yet to

handle the tension of people reacting

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to you, making a different decision.

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How are you able to navigate that?

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Oh, that's such a good question.

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It was through the training of

my yoga training off the mat.

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Yeah.

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It was being okay with

being in that tension.

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And just starting to practice that, right?

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I had an example, actually,

it was probably one of the

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first things I can remember.

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I had something going on with a

friend where I felt like I was

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in an uncomfortable situation.

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Um, and she had invited me to go somewhere

and, you know, everybody kind of panicked,

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like , other people who were also

uncomfortable were like, oh my gosh, We

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don't want to do that because of this.

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And I had this crazy idea, Jenny.

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This was nuts.

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We had been friends for over 20 years.

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And I was like, what if I called her?

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And just, just let her

know what was on my mind.

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At this crazy idea.

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Communicating.

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And just saying like, oh, this is

why this makes me feel uncomfortable.

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Who could have imagined

what happened next?

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We had a really honest,

lovely conversation.

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Wonderful.

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And it was really great because she was

able to see some really honest things

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to me that maybe she wouldn't have

felt a safe saying because I didn't

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open up the floor for and I was able

to say some really honest things and I

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think it was a really beautiful moment.

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And to me, it said, Oh, I'm actually

really safe here because I can say

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honest things to this person and

they're not going to stop talking to me.

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They're not going to make me feel bad.

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They're not going to not love me anymore.

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And it was the first time that I

learned that I could say yes to myself.

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And also yes to that friendship.

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Because by not being honest, how

was I honoring that relationship?

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That's true.

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It wasn't being fully authentic.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Many of us are that way, right.

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Yeah.

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There's so much fear in that.

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So I would say, okay.

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Yeah, I practiced.

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And, I was able to continue to practice

that and make some really big changes

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in my life that I never imagined.

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By continuing to say yes to

myself, I was fully aware of what

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it felt like to say no to myself.

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Can you elaborate a little bit about

yoga off the mat for those who are

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not familiar with that term or.

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Oh, concepts behind it.

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Most people think of yoga is.

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Asana is the movements, right?

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You get in, you go, you do this

like workout, but that's not what

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yoga is for people in the west.

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I'm going to do my best to answer it.

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It's a way of life.

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So I would say it's part of that spiritual

journey and so yoga has eight limbs.

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There are so many skills that were

not taught in life and I think for

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me, this specific yoga training

talked a lot about like, what if

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something feels uncomfortable?

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Uh, my teacher, she used pal.

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Pause, ask, listen.

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So if something makes you

feel uncomfortable, pause.

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Ask em.

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Listen to yourself, ask yourself you mean.

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Ask yourself.

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Pause, ask yourself and then listen

to what your inner wisdom says.

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Tapping into your inner wisdom.

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Yeah.

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We're just so full of it.

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And.

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Meditation is yoga off the mat as well.

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Right?

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Because a lot of people don't I associate

that directly with a yoga practice.

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Yoga is usually looked

at it as asana movement.

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Yes.

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and meditation is really spending time

with yourself, um, and listening to your

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inner wisdom, which is truly a gift.

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There's a lot that happens

outside of just movement that.

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Yeah, they gave me the

wisdom to walk my path.

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Amazing

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Before we moved from this topic, like,

I don't want to forget to say this one

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banger that relates to your realization

when you stopped drinking and you're

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in those moments and you're like,

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If you want to do this anymore, would.

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Do you like to say the

question we ask ourselves?

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Oh, my gosh, I love this one.

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Yeah, Jenny and I have a list of bangers.

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Um, is this fun?

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I because I had this, I think

that was mine cause I can't.

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It's a hundred percent.

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I can't remember where I was or what

I was doing, but I had this outer

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body experience a few months ago

and I was like, It was something

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always done with a group of friends.

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And I was like, in my mind,

I felt like I was floating.

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I'm like, is this actually fun?

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I was like, yeah.

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To me, this is not fun.

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And then I was like, I don't want to do

this anymore, so I didn't do this anymore.

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And it's just that.

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, self-reflection.

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I like the mail saying how you said, like,

go in word and ask yourself, is this fun?

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Or am I just doing this because

everyone else's and I feel like I

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should, or I'm doing it because I

don't want to let someone down or XYZ.

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Um, ask yourself if

something is truly fun.

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Just be aware because it is going

to ruffle your own feathers.

343

: 00:15:33

Yeah, but it's also a

very, very liberating.

344

: 00:15:36

Yeah.

345

: 00:15:36

And I also think what's crazy

is you could've done it before.

346

: 00:15:42

And you could have asked

yourself before, is this fun?

347

: 00:15:45

And it would have been a hell yes.

348

: 00:15:47

True.

349

: 00:15:47

And now you're doing the same exact

thing and it's not fun anymore.

350

: 00:15:51

Yup.

351

: 00:15:52

And you get to make a new choice.

352

: 00:15:53

And I think that's one of the

greatest gifts of this life.

353

: 00:15:57

And I am so grateful that you get

to choose over and over again.

354

: 00:16:02

And the choice that you made when

you were 20 or 25 or yesterday.

355

: 00:16:06

Yeah.

356

: 00:16:07

You.

357

: 00:16:07

You are not held to you

get to make the new choice.

358

: 00:16:09

So it's okay if you're like, oh, this

used to be fun and it's not fun anymore.

359

: 00:16:13

Yeah.

360

: 00:16:14

And it's okay that you change in

the people you're around to haven't.

361

: 00:16:18

It doesn't mean to shun them that it's

still fun to them, but it just means.

362

: 00:16:23

this feels complete.

363

: 00:16:24

Which is another one of our thinkers.

364

: 00:16:26

That was a, you.

365

: 00:16:27

Yeah.

366

: 00:16:28

This feels complete.

367

: 00:16:29

I love that.

368

: 00:16:29

because again, we have this idea and

I don't want to speak for everybody,

369

: 00:16:34

but I think a lot of us have this

idea that like, if you're friends

370

: 00:16:37

with somebody, that's it you're

like blood brothers or soul sisters

371

: 00:16:40

or whatever until the end of time.

372

: 00:16:43

Yeah.

373

: 00:16:43

And.

374

: 00:16:44

Uh friendship can be complete.

375

: 00:16:46

It can be short or long.

376

: 00:16:48

Like, This is one that's

been coming up for me a lot.

377

: 00:16:52

And it's can I do something, anything

without attachment to the outcome?

378

: 00:16:59

I recently started a new relationship

five months ago and like, can I

379

: 00:17:03

enter this relationship without

an attachment to any outcome.

380

: 00:17:08

What does that even feel like?

381

: 00:17:10

Actually, in the beginning of

the year I wrote myself a letter.

382

: 00:17:13

I was like, can I love without

attachment to the outcome?

383

: 00:17:16

I didn't know what that meant.

384

: 00:17:17

It didn't mean romantically.

385

: 00:17:19

I learned that it meant anybody.

386

: 00:17:22

How can I just love as a human

without attachment to the outcome.

387

: 00:17:25

Like what if they don't love me any human?

388

: 00:17:27

Yeah.

389

: 00:17:28

That could happen.

390

: 00:17:30

Any relationship could be short

or long or a job, a journey that

391

: 00:17:35

you're on could feel complete.

392

: 00:17:36

Like I think my journey with Mumford and

sons feels complete for me right now.

393

: 00:17:42

I think.

394

: 00:17:43

I've seen them many times.

395

: 00:17:44

I thought I would love Marcus

Mumford till the day he died.

396

: 00:17:48

And probably far beyond that.

397

: 00:17:51

And I, uh, yeah, I think our

journey together is complete

398

: 00:17:54

and I'm feeling okay with them.

399

: 00:17:56

That kind of relates to people pleasing.

400

: 00:17:58

It's like keeping up appearances in a way.

401

: 00:18:00

Oh, if everyone is identified you

in labels you as like, oh yeah,

402

: 00:18:03

you're the Mumford and sons fan.

403

: 00:18:05

And then all of a sudden

you change your mind.

404

: 00:18:07

You're like, oh, I'm kinda over it.

405

: 00:18:09

I would still keep lying to

themselves or lying to people to

406

: 00:18:12

say, yeah, I still listen to them.

407

: 00:18:14

I still like them because it's in this

weird social way, you don't want to.

408

: 00:18:18

Yeah.

409

: 00:18:18

I don't know what it is.

410

: 00:18:20

I totally get it.

411

: 00:18:21

. It's just like this fear, this

fear of loss, the fear of losing.

412

: 00:18:25

Of letting go.

413

: 00:18:25

A hundred percent.

414

: 00:18:26

Yeah.

415

: 00:18:26

One of the things that I learned, see,

I'm just getting chills right now is you

416

: 00:18:30

grow and change and you're different.

417

: 00:18:32

And when you're truly

authentically yourself.

418

: 00:18:34

So I was giving, I think you and

I were chatting about chutes and

419

: 00:18:38

ladders- like every time you say yes

to yourself, you like go up the ladder.

420

: 00:18:42

Right.

421

: 00:18:42

That's bringing you closer to your

true, authentic self, because you

422

: 00:18:46

just said yes to you we can talk

about the slides in a second, but I'm

423

: 00:18:49

excited about the ladder right now.

424

: 00:18:50

So every time I go up the

ladder, I say yes to myself.

425

: 00:18:53

I'm getting closer to myself.

426

: 00:18:55

And every time you do that, the

right people who are supposed to be

427

: 00:18:59

in your life are attracted to you.

428

: 00:19:02

I was still like on this journey

where I didn't feel like I

429

: 00:19:04

could have things be complete.

430

: 00:19:07

I was feeling really lonely.

431

: 00:19:09

I was like, oh my gosh,

I don't have any friends.

432

: 00:19:11

What am I doing here?

433

: 00:19:12

I have to move.

434

: 00:19:15

And then I came back, I was gone for

two months and I was like, I'm open.

435

: 00:19:20

to like hype thing yes to

myself over and over again.

436

: 00:19:23

And I have all these new,

amazing humans in my life that are

437

: 00:19:26

just popping up out of nowhere.

438

: 00:19:28

And Jenny, I never could have imagined

in my life, I could feel so loved.

439

: 00:19:33

And I've said, it's just unbelievable.

440

: 00:19:35

I feel so embraced by life and humans.

441

: 00:19:39

And it's just the most

amazing place to be ever.

442

: 00:19:41

I needed a change to like I needed

to say yes, This is complete

443

: 00:19:47

and I'm open to what's next.

444

: 00:19:49

And I'm just going to keep

saying yes to myself and then

445

: 00:19:52

all these amazing experiences

and humans just keep showing up.

446

: 00:19:56

So every time you say yes to

yourself, you attract what's next.

447

: 00:20:01

So even though you say no to something

else that might send others away, It

448

: 00:20:05

doesn't mean that there's not these

amazing other humans there to receive you.

449

: 00:20:09

That is spot on it's so true.

450

: 00:20:11

I guess I would just add, you know,

and shoot some lenders you're going

451

: 00:20:14

up levels and it's not a hierarchy

of like, this toxic positivity.

452

: 00:20:18

Oh, God, the higher up things

are better now hierarchy.

453

: 00:20:22

It's more just saying.

454

: 00:20:24

Oh, at this point at

who I am at this point.

455

: 00:20:28

Like attracts, like you're going to draw.

456

: 00:20:31

Yeah.

457

: 00:20:31

And are you still trying to hold on

to things from the other levels?

458

: 00:20:35

Because it's going to pull you down.

459

: 00:20:36

It's going to drag you down.

460

: 00:20:38

Putting in tug of war within yourself.

461

: 00:20:40

Yeah.

462

: 00:20:41

I should still talk to this person or be

involved with this because of I've always

463

: 00:20:45

have been, this is how we've always done.

464

: 00:20:48

I have all this history, blah, blah, blah.

465

: 00:20:49

Or are you just willing

to go up the ladder?

466

: 00:20:53

Go up the ladder and just know that

there's something new waiting you.

467

: 00:20:57

Yeah.

468

: 00:20:58

When you keep saying yes to yourself,

when we were talking about the slides.

469

: 00:21:01

Oh, every time you say no to yourself,

you're going down that slide.

470

: 00:21:04

And like, we hate that feeling

when you're like, damn it.

471

: 00:21:06

And sometimes you go down the long slide.

472

: 00:21:09

Yeah.

473

: 00:21:09

You go down the long side.

474

: 00:21:11

And yeah, we were just chatting about how

that's an opportunity to remember, right.

475

: 00:21:15

I mean, if you're living, going down

the side, I mean, you are going further

476

: 00:21:19

and further away from yourself, but

if it's like, ah, like recently I

477

: 00:21:22

was going on the flight a lot and

you totally called me out on it.

478

: 00:21:27

Loving way, in a loving way.

479

: 00:21:29

And then, um, even after the loving

way you shared with me that I may

480

: 00:21:33

have been going down the side,

I needed to really receive it.

481

: 00:21:38

And I learned the lesson.

482

: 00:21:39

It was like, dammit.

483

: 00:21:40

To go down the slide.

484

: 00:21:41

So, yeah, that's just an

opportunity to remember.

485

: 00:21:45

Oh yeah.

486

: 00:21:45

What does it feel like

when I say yes to myself?

487

: 00:21:47

And what does it feel like when I say no?

488

: 00:21:49

And sometimes you have to have

the contrast because you get so

489

: 00:21:52

used to the way things are that

you forget how wonderful it is

490

: 00:21:57

to be in the space of growth.

491

: 00:21:58

So then when you do go

down one of those shoots.

492

: 00:22:01

And be like, oh, this

is how I used to live.

493

: 00:22:03

This reminds me.

494

: 00:22:04

I don't like that.

495

: 00:22:05

Yeah.

496

: 00:22:05

I'm going to go back, back up the ladder.

497

: 00:22:07

Yeah.

498

: 00:22:07

And I think that's where

it's a journey, right?

499

: 00:22:09

I think.

500

: 00:22:09

I'm sharing with you,

like with your podcast.

501

: 00:22:12

I was like, oh, I love listening to it.

502

: 00:22:14

And I, I just feel like

I've really mastered it.

503

: 00:22:16

And it's just so great to

remember how great I'm doing.

504

: 00:22:19

And then that same week when I went,

it felt like a much bigger slide.

505

: 00:22:23

I was listening to your podcast.

506

: 00:22:25

I'm like, damn it, Jenny.

507

: 00:22:27

Because it is a journey, right?

508

: 00:22:29

Just remembering.

509

: 00:22:30

What it's like, and that we're

always in growth mode and we're

510

: 00:22:33

never going to be perfect.

511

: 00:22:35

And that's not the goal.

512

: 00:22:37

The goal is to be the most

authentic version of yourself.

513

: 00:22:41

And it can start to sound cliche,

but man, what an amazing journey when

514

: 00:22:44

you're living it, you know exactly.

515

: 00:22:46

I had to look up the texts I sent you.

516

: 00:22:48

What about the chutes and ladders

to, I couldn't remember what I said.

517

: 00:22:50

I said, I'll add that going down

the ladder isn't necessarily bad.

518

: 00:22:54

Yeah, because it shoots you.

519

: 00:23:00

It shoots you to a

different part of the board.

520

: 00:23:03

And maybe you're supposed to

be there to learn something

521

: 00:23:06

or cross paths with someone.

522

: 00:23:08

So up, isn't always best.

523

: 00:23:10

It doesn't mean you're casually

climbing up the ladder.

524

: 00:23:13

It's okay.

525

: 00:23:14

Like to go back words a little bit.

526

: 00:23:16

Sometimes you have to, so if we call

it a slip up or, you know, The falling

527

: 00:23:22

back into old habits or patterns like.

528

: 00:23:25

Slack, give yourself some grace because

it's, everything is in divine timing.

529

: 00:23:29

Things always happen exactly

how they're supposed to.

530

: 00:23:31

When we started and I don't know how

this will all come together, but I was

531

: 00:23:34

like, I'm Jessie, I'm a human person.

532

: 00:23:37

I always want to be a human

person first cause no human

533

: 00:23:40

is doing everything perfectly.

534

: 00:23:42

We are here in our human.

535

: 00:23:44

Yeah, exactly life experiences.

536

: 00:23:47

So yeah, things can be complete and.

537

: 00:23:50

And back can be okay.

538

: 00:23:53

Okay.

539

: 00:23:54

This feels complete.

540

: 00:23:56

I love that.

541

: 00:23:57

Yeah.

542

: 00:23:57

And it's like, where can we be

more honest- one with ourselves

543

: 00:24:02

and then the people in our lives?

544

: 00:24:03

And I've shared with you.

545

: 00:24:04

I've experienced that in

the relationship I am now.

546

: 00:24:07

Every time it's Yeah,

I feel uncomfortable.

547

: 00:24:10

I want to have an honest conversation

with him and, I think for

548

: 00:24:14

sure we'll break up, right?

549

: 00:24:16

Because previous experiences have

led me to believe if I'm honest,

550

: 00:24:19

this is not going to go well.

551

: 00:24:21

And then every time I have the

conversation, we have this

552

: 00:24:24

really beautiful conversation.

553

: 00:24:26

We're closer again, just

like with that friend.

554

: 00:24:29

And it's like, wait, I didn't tie.

555

: 00:24:32

Uh, this is taking this

relationship to another level and

556

: 00:24:35

this feels really aligned because

if I were to stew on it, right?

557

: 00:24:39

You know, not say anything.

558

: 00:24:40

And then three months later, you're just

like ready to scream in someone's face.

559

: 00:24:43

Has that ever happened to you?

560

: 00:24:45

Um, I plead the fifth.

561

: 00:24:48

I just getting yes.

562

: 00:24:49

Numerous times.

563

: 00:24:50

I feel like that's one of the

tenants of people pleasing is,

564

: 00:24:53

yeah, the building resentment.

565

: 00:24:55

So building resentment.

566

: 00:24:56

So my commitment to him is we're going

to have a conversation and it's not scary

567

: 00:25:00

and it's really quite wonderful actually.

568

: 00:25:03

But again, that's at practicing and

learning and telling your nervous

569

: 00:25:06

system that every time you do that, It's

not going to be a complete meltdown.

570

: 00:25:09

It's not going to be a huge fight.

571

: 00:25:11

It's not going to be a breakup

cause you're with a safe human.

572

: 00:25:15

So having all of this growth

obviously it happened over time,

573

: 00:25:21

do you have any daily habits?

574

: 00:25:23

I know you said yoga, but specific things

that have helped you keep on track.

575

: 00:25:27

Yeah, we'll do grow and heal.

576

: 00:25:28

What would you suggest for people?

577

: 00:25:30

Yeah, I definitely, for me,

the instinctive meditation

578

: 00:25:34

genuinely changed my life.

579

: 00:25:35

And that's the work of Lauren Roche.

580

: 00:25:37

who has a PhD and researcher,

which I love, I love research.

581

: 00:25:40

And I also love like an element of woo.

582

: 00:25:43

So he's a great combination.

583

: 00:25:44

He's an old surfer who's,

I just love his energy.

584

: 00:25:47

It's amazing.

585

: 00:25:48

And his wife, Camille Maureen.

586

: 00:25:50

I will tag this all in the show notes.

587

: 00:25:52

Their work is all about spending time

in meditation in your own way because

588

: 00:25:57

your body is built to meditate, so it's

not like, oh, I must be silent for 20

589

: 00:26:01

minutes or I must do guided meditation.

590

: 00:26:04

It's you creating your own roadmap for

your meditation, but really committing

591

: 00:26:08

to space for yourself every morning

to listen to your inner wisdom, it's

592

: 00:26:13

like, so bananas, but especially

you and I have talked about it.

593

: 00:26:16

We can be on 27,000 tangents, but

distracting yourself from you.

594

: 00:26:20

So, giving your space to

hear yourself in the morning.

595

: 00:26:23

So every morning I typically spend

between 30 minutes to an hour and a

596

: 00:26:27

half, which is, sounds intimidating,

and you don't have to do it that long.

597

: 00:26:31

I started with 20 minutes.

598

: 00:26:33

, I've just listening to myself in the

morning and , it's a wild ride in

599

: 00:26:36

there and sometimes I go for a walk.

600

: 00:26:38

I love a good daydream of,

I know I share with you.

601

: 00:26:41

I'm like daydreaming in a coffee shop,

but without distractions, it's

602

: 00:26:44

just me, and myself and nature.

603

: 00:26:47

I would encourage anybody

as a really nice gateway.

604

: 00:26:51

Commit to five minutes for yourself

to start with a coffee or a tea or

605

: 00:26:55

something with absolutely no distractions.

606

: 00:26:57

Cause.

607

: 00:26:57

No cell phone.

608

: 00:26:58

No, nothing, no cell phone.

609

: 00:27:00

Yeah.

610

: 00:27:01

But to hear yourself, cause I know a lot

of people are scared of what's in there.

611

: 00:27:05

I was talking to somebody who went for

a walk without iPads or iPods, ear pods.

612

: 00:27:10

AirPods.

613

: 00:27:11

I sound like I'm 90.

614

: 00:27:12

She told me she just started

weeping and she goes, I didn't

615

: 00:27:14

know what was happening.

616

: 00:27:16

And it's because she gave herself space.

617

: 00:27:19

Yes.

618

: 00:27:20

She gave herself space.

619

: 00:27:21

So I encourage you to give yourself

some space and start running from

620

: 00:27:24

one thing to the next, another

great technique that I love.

621

: 00:27:27

And I use nearly every day is if

I'm going to meet someone to do

622

: 00:27:31

something, I'm almost always early.

623

: 00:27:33

I like to give myself 15 minutes minimum,

and then you have 15 minutes for yourself

624

: 00:27:38

you just built in.

625

: 00:27:40

So it's a great way to get started.

626

: 00:27:42

then you can start to hear yourself like,

oh, am I dreading doing this later today?

627

: 00:27:48

Does this sound fun , or start to tap

into yourself and like, oh, I can't

628

: 00:27:52

wait for that because then you get to

consciously start making decisions.

629

: 00:27:57

And starting to notice patterns too

For instance, if I always feeling

630

: 00:28:02

a sense of resistance, every time

I make plans with this person.

631

: 00:28:05

This is a repeat pattern.

632

: 00:28:07

Yes, absolutely.

633

: 00:28:09

It is my body mind, soul

connection, trying to tell me here.

634

: 00:28:13

Yeah.

635

: 00:28:14

Or you, and I love to

have this conversation.

636

: 00:28:16

Am I shoulding my shoulding?

637

: 00:28:18

This.

638

: 00:28:20

Oh, the dreaded should.

639

: 00:28:23

Uh, , am I really excited

about this or too?

640

: 00:28:25

I feel like I should do this.

641

: 00:28:28

What dammit.

642

: 00:28:30

That's another tenant of people pleasing.

643

: 00:28:33

I should that feeds into this

is how we've always done things.

644

: 00:28:37

Because they should.

645

: 00:28:38

Yes.

646

: 00:28:39

That I feel is lifelong on programming.

647

: 00:28:43

It is lifelong.

648

: 00:28:45

We do have social contracts and we do

have obviously expectations to be a

649

: 00:28:49

functioning society amongst us as humans.

650

: 00:28:51

I do think there are some social

contracts, so where it is nice to support

651

: 00:28:55

other humans in your life, even though

it might not feel like a hell yes.

652

: 00:28:59

Yeah.

653

: 00:28:59

That person is a yes for you.

654

: 00:29:01

And I think there's, there

is some of that, right?

655

: 00:29:04

There's compromise, there is some

compromise in this world, but if you're

656

: 00:29:07

continuing to say no to yourself over

and over, you're going to feel it.

657

: 00:29:11

You're going to absolutely feel it.

658

: 00:29:12

Where do you feel it in your body?

659

: 00:29:14

Ooh, that's such a great question, Jenny.

660

: 00:29:16

I actually usually feel

it right in my heart.

661

: 00:29:19

I usually feel it right in my chest.

662

: 00:29:21

Yeah.

663

: 00:29:21

And then when I feel it, I'll actually

put my hand right on my chest and kind

664

: 00:29:25

of connect to oh, this is information.

665

: 00:29:28

It's trying to tell me something because

years and years ago I would ignore it

666

: 00:29:33

and I actually ignored it for so long

667

: 00:29:35

I started to have physical reactions

to it, and I was actually got

668

: 00:29:37

myself into a situation where I kept

saying no to myself, no, to myself.

669

: 00:29:41

And I was shaking for

about four months straight.

670

: 00:29:43

Oh gosh.

671

: 00:29:44

Yeah.

672

: 00:29:45

Yeah, because your body is always

trying to tell you something

673

: 00:29:50

and if you keep ignoring it,

it will try to tell you louder.

674

: 00:29:56

For me, it's my stomach or my intestines,

so it would be like sacred chakra.

675

: 00:30:02

I get stomach cramps.

676

: 00:30:03

I've always had this since I was a kid.

677

: 00:30:04

My mom said she would always

feel so bad sometimes.

678

: 00:30:07

If we would travel to see family or

social settings, I would get such stomach

679

: 00:30:11

cramps and she didn't know how to help me.

680

: 00:30:12

And now I understand as an adult.

681

: 00:30:16

That was my body trying

to say you need space.

682

: 00:30:18

You feel unsafe you, whatever it was.

683

: 00:30:21

It still happens and I try to pay

attention to that, but the only way you

684

: 00:30:25

can really pay attention is if you're

not constantly distracting yourself.

685

: 00:30:29

Yeah.

686

: 00:30:29

Or you're not trying to numb yourself.

687

: 00:30:32

Absolutely.

688

: 00:30:33

When I tell people that I spend

90 minutes alone by myself, giving

689

: 00:30:37

myself space in the morning, I think

people get really overwhelmed by that.

690

: 00:30:42

Talking about what we talked

about earlier in like honesty.

691

: 00:30:45

Being honest with our emotions.

692

: 00:30:47

So I mentioned my marriage ending

and the grief was unimaginable.

693

: 00:30:53

And like I mentioned, I had made a

decision that was going to feel this.

694

: 00:30:56

And I started to share it I

didn't wave a flag about it,

695

: 00:31:01

but shared, oh, this is hard.

696

: 00:31:03

This sucks.

697

: 00:31:05

Yeah, this is uncomfortable.

698

: 00:31:07

and it gave other people permission

to be honest about their journey

699

: 00:31:11

of grief, whatever that journey was

because I think when we don't talk

700

: 00:31:15

about those things and say, oh, this

is hard, or I am angry or I am sad.

701

: 00:31:20

Then other people don't feel

permission to share their feelings.

702

: 00:31:24

So I think the more we give ourselves

permission to be human, we give other

703

: 00:31:29

people permission to be human as well.

704

: 00:31:31

Great point.

705

: 00:31:32

I think the other thing that we were

talking about just like checking

706

: 00:31:35

in, I think this is a great way

for people to start is to check

707

: 00:31:38

in with themselves in the morning.

708

: 00:31:40

Or throughout the day and

say, what do I need right now?

709

: 00:31:44

Oh, that's something I'm working on.

710

: 00:31:46

Yeah.

711

: 00:31:47

Like how powerful is that to say yes

to yourself, but sometimes you don't

712

: 00:31:51

even know how to say yes to yourself

cause you don't know what you need.

713

: 00:31:54

Yeah, you've been shoulding all,

your life . Your decisions and even

714

: 00:31:58

sometimes how to feel are based on

things that you feel you should be doing.

715

: 00:32:02

Think it's scary at first to ask yourself

what the hell you even want or need.

716

: 00:32:06

Yeah, it feels very

vulnerable and selfish.

717

: 00:32:09

Totally.

718

: 00:32:10

And I think it can be small.

719

: 00:32:11

It doesn't have to be wild like this

morning when I was waiting for us

720

: 00:32:15

to meet, I thought I need a walk.

721

: 00:32:18

Yeah, that was it.

722

: 00:32:19

That's all I needed this

morning before I saw you.

723

: 00:32:21

It was sunny this morning.

724

: 00:32:22

I just needed a walk and I had

originally thought that I would spend

725

: 00:32:26

time on the porch daydreaming away.

726

: 00:32:28

And that was a way for me to just check

in with myself and say what I need.

727

: 00:32:32

So I think when you're talking

with yourself, it doesn't

728

: 00:32:34

have to be life altering.

729

: 00:32:36

It's just a quick way

to say, oh, I need this.

730

: 00:32:38

Or oh, I need an apple, like.

731

: 00:32:40

Yeah.

732

: 00:32:42

I mean, like, it doesn't have to

be earth shattering or anything.

733

: 00:32:45

I had some news recently.

734

: 00:32:47

I had I planned to move

to Italy in January.

735

: 00:32:51

And there was a law that changed in Rome.

736

: 00:32:54

Yeah.

737

: 00:32:55

Yeah, that made it no longer possible

for me to obtain dual citizenship,

738

: 00:33:00

which uh, was the reason for my move.

739

: 00:33:03

And I immediately panicked and

then I was able to check in with

740

: 00:33:08

myself and say, I need space.

741

: 00:33:11

And I had to tell the humans around me

because once you know what you need, and

742

: 00:33:16

if it involves others, it's nice to share.

743

: 00:33:20

Yes.

744

: 00:33:21

No, but honestly, A lot of times you don't

feel like you can, or you are worried

745

: 00:33:25

about how it's going to be received.

746

: 00:33:27

And then you just had this whole

other layer of stress on yourself

747

: 00:33:29

and you end up denying your

reality and what you really need.

748

: 00:33:33

Yeah, absolutely.

749

: 00:33:34

So I had plans, I had commitments and

I had to tell the people around me.

750

: 00:33:40

I need space.

751

: 00:33:41

I even had a house guest at my house and

I had to tell her, I need space right now.

752

: 00:33:46

I need to process this

and I need to be alone.

753

: 00:33:50

That was very apparent.

754

: 00:33:51

And if I tried to

755

: 00:33:54

carry on with those commitments and

to do the things that I thought were

756

: 00:33:58

expected of me that was not going to

be good for me or that other person.

757

: 00:34:02

So I think, what do I need that

is such a great way to get started.

758

: 00:34:07

It can be bigger, small and taking action

759

: 00:34:09

then that's the brave part.

760

: 00:34:12

There is so much bravery in this , but

you do what feels comfortable,

761

: 00:34:16

it's not always yes for you.

762

: 00:34:21

This is true.

763

: 00:34:22

Even though it feels brave and

uncomfortable, It's just going

764

: 00:34:25

to get you to where you need to

be or to get you to your yes.

765

: 00:34:28

Life is hard, Jenny.

766

: 00:34:30

It is.

767

: 00:34:31

I just got lost in that.

768

: 00:34:32

I was like, damn it.

769

: 00:34:35

It is it's hard.

770

: 00:34:36

But every time you say yes to yourself,

you're just getting a little bit

771

: 00:34:39

closer to to your authentic self and

the closer you get to that, the more

772

: 00:34:43

amazing this time on this earth will be.

773

: 00:34:47

Is there any other story or

something you wanted to mention?

774

: 00:34:50

The only other thing I want to

mention is recently, one of my

775

: 00:34:54

coaches said this to me and I.

776

: 00:34:57

like let out this big sigh she

said, what matters to me matters.

777

: 00:35:01

Hmm.

778

: 00:35:02

See, I was like, yeah.

779

: 00:35:03

Shit.

780

: 00:35:05

That was like one of those

like aha banger moments.

781

: 00:35:08

What matters to me matters.

782

: 00:35:11

And I think living in that every day is

the, I just that's maybe that's my bumper.

783

: 00:35:18

One to say, is that your bumper sticker?

784

: 00:35:20

The bumper sticker, what

matters to me matters.

785

: 00:35:23

I think that's like a battle

cry for healing people pleasers.

786

: 00:35:27

Oh, my gosh.

787

: 00:35:28

I freaking love it.

788

: 00:35:28

I'd love that too.

789

: 00:35:30

I feel like that is something that people

could put on sticky notes, everywhere,

790

: 00:35:33

all over their house in their office.

791

: 00:35:35

Oh my gosh.

792

: 00:35:36

I'm going to get that.

793

: 00:35:37

My one of my yoga teachers, one

of my mentors, she always says

794

: 00:35:40

, what's your tattoo bubble phrase?

795

: 00:35:41

what would you tattoo on yourself?

796

: 00:35:43

And I was like, I'm going

to tattoo that on my body.

797

: 00:35:47

I think that's what she meant.

798

: 00:35:49

What matters to me matters.

799

: 00:35:50

Oh my gosh.

800

: 00:35:51

I am feeling that in my chest right now.

801

: 00:35:53

Like I had a physical reaction to that.

802

: 00:35:55

Yeah, that's the bumper sticker.

803

: 00:35:57

And having the people in your life who

aligned with that because my boyfriend

804

: 00:36:02

recently, as I'm, you know, going

through this big transition and trying

805

: 00:36:05

to understand what's next to me in my

life, I said, I need some space and I'm

806

: 00:36:09

going to go to Ithaca for a couple of

weeks and he goes that's important to you.

807

: 00:36:12

You need that.

808

: 00:36:13

And.

809

: 00:36:14

I thank you for acknowledging.

810

: 00:36:17

Yes.

811

: 00:36:18

Thank you for seeing me.

812

: 00:36:20

Right, because you want to

have the people in your life

813

: 00:36:22

that are aligned to that phrase.

814

: 00:36:23

That, yeah, it's a great way to

eventually weed people out, which

815

: 00:36:27

I know is that painful process.

816

: 00:36:29

And

817

: 00:36:31

I think it needs to be talked about.

818

: 00:36:33

I'm just being honest though.

819

: 00:36:34

And you go on this healing journey.

820

: 00:36:36

Relationship shift, some of

them shift out of your life.

821

: 00:36:39

Yeah.

822

: 00:36:40

And that's okay.

823

: 00:36:42

And you can handle the tension of that.

824

: 00:36:44

It's going to be okay.

825

: 00:36:45

But you'll realize later

on, they're like, wow.

826

: 00:36:48

That wasn't really fun.

827

: 00:36:49

Anyway.

828

: 00:36:50

Exactly you.

829

: 00:36:51

It'll let you evolve into the next

version of yourself a hundred percent.

830

: 00:36:56

I was just thinking this.

831

: 00:36:57

So I talked about your

habits quitting you.

832

: 00:36:59

I think those relationships kind of quit.

833

: 00:37:01

You.

834

: 00:37:02

And sometimes we hold on and

we're like, no, but I need this

835

: 00:37:07

because I've always had this.

836

: 00:37:09

And acknowledging that it's

complete is part of the journey.

837

: 00:37:13

And I love what Glen and Joyal says.

838

: 00:37:15

Like we can do her things.

839

: 00:37:17

just because it's hard

doesn't mean it's bad.

840

: 00:37:20

True.

841

: 00:37:20

Yeah.

842

: 00:37:22

And I did want to share.

843

: 00:37:23

Um, a Sutra from the radiant sutras from

my teacher, Lauren Roche, he has his

844

: 00:37:29

own interpretation of the yoga sutras.

845

: 00:37:32

112 gateways to the yoga of

wonder and delight, which is

846

: 00:37:36

just such a great way to live.

847

: 00:37:37

Amazing.

848

: 00:37:38

I will tag this in the show notes.

849

: 00:37:39

Yeah, absolutely.

850

: 00:37:41

And it's suture 26 I didn't realize

this, but I was living with a Sutra

851

: 00:37:46

for the last five months nearly I've

read it at every single one of my

852

: 00:37:48

yoga classes, which I've never done.

853

: 00:37:51

And it's tapping into your

inner wisdom and that's.

854

: 00:37:55

Why I love this one.

855

: 00:37:55

It's it's listening,

listening to your heart.

856

: 00:37:58

I've been saying that all the

time, just listen to your heart.

857

: 00:38:00

And I think people think it's kind

of cliche, but I'm not kidding

858

: 00:38:03

because I think, like I mentioned,

that's where I feel things.

859

: 00:38:05

Yeah.

860

: 00:38:06

And when you're listening to

yourself, tapping into your

861

: 00:38:09

inner wisdom , that's your guide?

862

: 00:38:11

That's your map?

863

: 00:38:12

That's your map of life.

864

: 00:38:13

So I'm just going to share

this for you, please do.

865

: 00:38:18

With you.

866

: 00:38:19

, the one who was at play everywhere,

says there's a space in the

867

: 00:38:23

heart where everything meets.

868

: 00:38:25

Come here if you want to find me.

869

: 00:38:29

Mind senses soul eternity.

870

: 00:38:32

All are here.

871

: 00:38:33

Are you.

872

: 00:38:36

Enter the bowl of vastness.

873

: 00:38:37

That is the heart.

874

: 00:38:39

And listened to the song

that is always resonating.

875

: 00:38:42

Give yourself to it with total abandon.

876

: 00:38:45

Quiet ecstasy is here and a steady Regal

sense of resting in a perfect spot.

877

: 00:38:53

You who are the embodiment of blessing.

878

: 00:38:56

Once, you know, the way.

879

: 00:38:58

The nature of attention,

will call you to return.

880

: 00:39:02

Again, and again, answer the call and

be saturated with knowing I belong here.

881

: 00:39:09

I am home.

882

: 00:39:11

Amazing.

883

: 00:39:12

That's all.

884

: 00:39:13

That's my mic drop.

885

: 00:39:14

I'm done.

886

: 00:39:14

I love it.

887

: 00:39:15

But it says you're the

embodiment of a blessing.

888

: 00:39:18

You're the embodiment of blessing.

889

: 00:39:21

And I belong here.

890

: 00:39:21

I am home.

891

: 00:39:22

This is it.

892

: 00:39:22

This is what you have.

893

: 00:39:23

Like if you were to ever

894

: 00:39:25

build a relationship with anybody

and really work on that thing.

895

: 00:39:29

It should be the person

that never leaves your side.

896

: 00:39:31

And that's you so.

897

: 00:39:34

Yes, wherever you go.

898

: 00:39:35

There you are.

899

: 00:39:35

Wherever you go.

900

: 00:39:38

It's true.

901

: 00:39:39

You take yourself with

you everywhere you go.

902

: 00:39:41

You can move geographically, you

can move from relationship to

903

: 00:39:45

relationship, but everywhere you go.

904

: 00:39:49

There you are.

905

: 00:39:50

I would love to work on it because

a hundred percent can escape you.

906

: 00:39:55

If there was ever a relationship to invest

in, that's a hundred percent the one.

907

: 00:39:59

Yeah.

908

: 00:39:59

So 30 minutes to 90 minutes a day.

909

: 00:40:02

It doesn't seem like a long

time when you think about that.

910

: 00:40:05

That's true.

911

: 00:40:05

Yeah.

912

: 00:40:06

And it isn't selfish because when you

take care of yourself, then you're

913

: 00:40:10

better able to take care of others.

914

: 00:40:12

You're uh, you're worth

the effort you are.

915

: 00:40:15

That's all I have.

916

: 00:40:18

Do you feel complete?

917

: 00:40:19

I feel complete.

918

: 00:40:20

Wonderful.

919

: 00:40:20

Yeah, I feel complete.

920

: 00:40:22

this is a really fun journey.

921

: 00:40:23

And I feel like we've been on

this journey together for a while

922

: 00:40:26

now kind of co-creating this

conversation we have- it's amazing.

923

: 00:40:30

Yeah.

924

: 00:40:30

It's a ton of fun and you know,

maybe another time I'll have another

925

: 00:40:34

list of bangers we've put together

and we can have part 12 or 17 or

926

: 00:40:39

wherever we are in that journey.

927

: 00:40:41

I love it.

928

: 00:40:42

Yes.

929

: 00:40:43

All right.

930

: 00:40:43

Do you think we're complete now?

931

: 00:40:44

I think.

932

: 00:40:48

I think we are too.

933

: 00:40:49

I feel in my heart.

934

: 00:40:50

This was wonderful.

935

: 00:40:51

Thank you so much for taking

time to be here for everyone

936

: 00:40:54

and for me, It's wonderful.