Ep 27: Workplace Boundaries, Self Acceptance, and Religious Upbringing & Guilt with Jen Cunningham

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How's your day been going?

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It's been going well.

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We have a new employee

who started at our job.

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So she's learning all the new

ropes . Learning the ins and outs.

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Are you having to train?

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Cause that's always an

interesting position to be in.

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It is so nice not to have to train.

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She's a different position than me,

so luckily we were able to keep the

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predecessor there to do the training.

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It's been such a relief to not have

to be involved in that and then

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get everything done on top of that.

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Oh, nice.

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That's so good.

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Yeah.

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Because it's so stressful trying

to do your job and train people.

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And then when you're a people pleaser,

it does add that level on there.

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Woo!

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Yes at my job I feel like people

pleasing is the expectation.

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Oh, I'm sure we are gonna dive into that.

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I'm excited, you're here.

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I'm excited to be here, Jenny.

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Excited you're here, Jenny.

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Jenny and Jenny.

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Jenny and Jenny show.

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Although, do you go by Jenny as much as?

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Sometimes, like with friends and family.

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People who knew me since childhood.

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Oh, do you?

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That's awesome.

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Yeah, cause I more so

know you as Jen, but.

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Yeah, whichever.

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I'm flexible.

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Are you a Jennifer?

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Yeah.

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I'm just Jenny.

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Really?

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My parents were like, we're gonna call her

Jenny, might as well just name her Jenny.

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That's interesting.

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It is.

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It's pretty cool.

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But also it was very stressful as a kid.

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Cuz everybody was like Jennifer.

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Yeah, and I have this core memory of

third grade filling in the bubble Tron

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for some state test And my teacher you'd

think by spring she would know my name and

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she's yelling at me when I'm filling it

out cuz I'm putting Jenny in the little

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scantron, you know the bubbles Yeah, and

she's like you're supposed to put your

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legal name and I'm almost in tears.

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Making me have an identity

crisis at eight years old.

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Who am I?

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Am I Jennifer?

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Meanwhile, I'm over here thinking

when people ask me, they're

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like, is your real name Jennifer?

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And I'm like, yeah, of course it is.

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What else would it be?

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So either way, I didn't think

Jen's would get questioned.

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I just thought that was a

given that you're a Jennifer.

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If you're named Jen,

guess he could be Jenna.

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Oh, I guess you could be Jenny.

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It's too much.

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I didn't know that Jennifer's

had the same problem.

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It's hilarious.

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And of course, as people pleasers,

we're very kind about it.

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Exactly.

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I know there have been times in my life

when I just let someone call me Jennifer

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cause I was like it's not worth it.

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Looking back now, it's That's

a little bit of people pleaser.

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Yeah.

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I would say I still struggle with that.

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Like , with the double Ns, I have people

that I work with where they still send

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me emails and they're like, Jen, and I'm

like, I don't know how many times I have

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to sign this signature as Jen with one

N and one person I was able to talk to

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and say Hey, You're a Phil with one L.

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I'm also a Jen with one N.

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That And what did he say?

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He's oh, I just totally missed

that this whole time with our

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exchange of communication.

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And I said, yeah, it's

something I would prefer.

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It just shows me that

people are paying attention.

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Good for you for speaking up though,

because that can be super awkward.

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Yeah, at times having to

address that about the names.

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It's a sign of respect saying it

properly and spelling it the right way.

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So that is your public service

announcement for the day, listeners.

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Yes, people prefer the spelling of

their name to be correct Yes, and

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if you're talking to a Jen don't

assume it's two N's I guess, don't

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assume that they're a Jennifer.

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And don't yell at them if

they're filling out government

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paperwork or test documents.

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I guess this is a great time

to talk about childhood.

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Do you feel like you were

always a people pleaser?

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Yeah, I think looking back more

than I was aware of that there was

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a lot of stuff in my life where I

ended up having to be the parent.

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And I think that a lot of my maybe

religious background too, also

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dictated how I should be in society,

how I should respond to things.

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Who I should give my time to.

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So I think that there's a lot of

people pleasing in that aspect too.

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And so you're raised in that and your

brain becomes conditioned to think

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that everybody else matters first.

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I'd love to dive into what you're talking

about, the religious belief, do you

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mean more of the, Like the subservience?

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Yeah, I think that I grew up

Catholic Roman Catholic I think

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that same you are you are damned.

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You are so damned.

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Yeah, I will never be a saint, You're

a sinner, even if Jesus forgives,

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you're not going to be that good.

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So yeah, and I took my religious

seriously when I was a kid too.

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So I remember after I received my first

penance, I would Turn to my parents

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during church and be like, am I okay?

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Can I go up there?

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Can I receive the body of Christ,

and I think that became a big

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problem for me later on in life.

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I think I gave away a lot

of my power to people.

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I always needed the approval

because of Something like that,

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like you are not free of sin.

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You are not ready to receive the

body of Christ, and in the same way,

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it's am I good enough to do my job?

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Okay.

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I should go to my, supervisor

and ask for approval.

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Am I doing this all right?

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And it's yeah, you're fine.

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Stop bothering me.

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Cause they always talk about Catholic

guilt, but that more sounds like.

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I don't know, Catholic permission

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I think it all comes down

to guilt, guilt and shame.

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Yeah.

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Wow.

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I will say, cause I know when you first

sat down here, you were saying, but I'm

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not recovered with a D and I'm like, the

podcast is recovering people, pleaser.

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That is a huge step that

you are already taken.

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The fact that you recognize these

patterns and where those systemic beliefs

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came from.

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The fact that you can identify

those patterns within yourself.

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It's so wonderful because then

you're able to look at some of

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your habits objectively, and you're

not taking yourself so personally,

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you're not internalizing it.

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Essentially, you're not guilting yourself

because you understand why something

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might trigger guilt or whatnot within you.

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That's huge.

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I'd say that's Self

awareness is the biggie.

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That's the first big step.

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Yeah, I think I'm definitely

in the self awareness bucket.

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I think that doing the action, taking

the uncomfortable steps is something that

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still bothers me, like something that's

hard to do, as an adult it's something you

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have to do, you have to push beyond that.

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I believe I was listening to one

of your episodes and you were

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saying that, what is it you have

to Be okay with the uncomfortable.

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Oh, tolerate the tension.

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Tolerate the tension.

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That's the second episode

if you haven't listened yet.

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Yeah.

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Tolerate the tension.

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Cause one way or the other

you are dealing with tension.

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so many phases of tension before the

buildup of maybe saying no or setting

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a boundary or whatever you want to say

before, during, and then afterwards

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not spiraling and second guessing

what you've done and thinking to

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yourself, Oh, I should have done this

differently or whatever it may be.

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Or, if you didn't say anything,

you'd still worry about those things.

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Yep, exactly.

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You'd still have that tension.

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So if you're going to deal

with the tension, you might

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as well get it done with.

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Yeah, just Rip the band aid off.

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And then also people start

treating you differently.

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I think when you start

respecting yourself, people

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start to respect you more too.

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Do you have a recent experience with that?

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I don't know if I'm at that point

quite yet where people are starting

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to be like, Oh yeah she's doing the

deed, putting down the boundaries.

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But I would say that I think

people like, for instance, at my

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job, it's dealing with a lot of

people and putting out their fires.

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Every, everybody is a volunteer

there and they all have specific

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needs that they need to be met.

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And so that is my job.

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My job is to tend to them.

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That's part of them being welcomed

and having all their work done.

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So It's important to find a way to do it,

but also find a way to keep yourself sane.

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And some people do recognize that

they see Jen needs some boundaries.

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she needs her personal space and she

needs maybe a scheduled routine and stuff.

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So I have maybe softly put

out some warnings to people.

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There's a sign on my door saying,

if you want to have a conversation,

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maybe you should schedule some

time with me, oh, that's good.

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What are some other ways you've done that?

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Because I love how you

said soft boundaries.

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I think so many people, and it's such

a, I don't know, like a pop culture

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term now, and they think it's harsh.

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It's going to cut this person

out of my life or don't do that.

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It's very aggressive.

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It doesn't have to be.

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I think it's okay.

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Especially in a professional setting

to have some flexibility because

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you aren't going to have everybody

who's going to follow all the rules.

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True.

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Or there might be something that's,

extenuating beyond that circumstance.

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But I do think that a lot of boundaries

also they only work when you do enforce

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them, do the work, and it's only as

good as what allow into your life.

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What were some other soft

boundaries that you have?

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I love the sign on the door.

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That's awesome.

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my boss did help me write something for

the newsletter saying there are going

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to be changes and with changes comes

some, other structures of workflow.

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I'm slowly working on different

patterns for that too, of having

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people, Maybe try a different format

maybe I can make workflows from that.

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Things that make sense.

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That's a great example, I'm

glad you brought that up.

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I think so many times we think boundaries

are just relationship based as impersonal

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and feelings and all that kind of thing,

But like you said, setting up systems

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and workflows in your workplace is a

boundary of this is how I handle things.

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So people don't just come barging in,

claiming the time that they want with you.

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I think another way too is just it

seems like a lot of places I end up

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working at they start off with some

very antiquated systems, a lot of paper

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and pen type of situations Gotcha.

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Yeah.

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So I'm have to take what they have and

turn that into modern day and age stuff.

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So there's a lot of resistance

that comes around that.

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But I think that having the boundary

that maybe stuff can't live in

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somebody's notebook, somebody else's

house in a filing cabinet somewhere,

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like this all has to belong in one

place because this is, important

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for the future of this organization.

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Yeah, that's great.

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shout Out to you, kudos to you, because

speaking up and addressing those

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changes that need to be made, are proof

of people pleaser healing because I

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don't even know if there were times

in my life where I would have felt

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comfortable even speaking up to do that.

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Yeah.

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Because you're running the risk of

having to sit with and tolerate tension.

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That comes with that when people Having

resistance popping up and then you

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having to sit there while they process

their feelings And it's hard for me.

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I want people to like me it's very

hard for me to let go of that and I do

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think that there are times where i'm

starting to see that where i'm just

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like You know what that person didn't

like the way that I said something and

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i'm like I have to let them sit in it

Ooh, I have to let them sit in it, yes.

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A friend of mine, she took a very strong

and emotionally intelligent action

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towards somebody, in her workplace and

she used an example and told us about

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how she said to somebody that she felt

that their actions were disrespectful.

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And that person, cowered back a

little bit and she's Oh, I didn't

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really want that, reaction, but

it's up to them to deal with it.

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I've been keeping that in the back

of my mind saying I guess that's just

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what happens is that they have to

deal with their reaction afterwards.

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Yeah, that's spot on.

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I think that's one of the tenets

of people pleasing is trying to

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manage other people's emotions.

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Yeah.

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It's so tied into everything, right?

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You don't want people to

think badly about you.

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You don't want to feel the

negativity that comes with it.

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It's really self preservation.

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Yeah.

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But the fact that you're able to sit

back and observe as someone is having a

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reaction to something you said, and it's

not like you're being a jerk, right?

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That's huge.

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So do you have certain tools or strategies

that you use to help you process that?

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What do you do?

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If I'm in the same room with the

person, I might have to leave and

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just take a little quick walk so that,

they can sit with it and that there's

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maybe not that tension in the room.

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Usually I think I just have to physically

distance myself . That's a good point

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because Even physically moving your

energy as well helps to process it.

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I think for me, the biggest situation

that I went through was I was in a

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very committed relationship to somebody

who was very draining of my energy.

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And I had a very close friend,

our mutual friend, Shana.

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She was coaching me through that and she

would say things about how important it

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is to really build your routine around

you, whatever it is that you want.

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If you want to wake up early

and go for a walk in nature.

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you got to be able to do that If that's

what you want, and that's what's going

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to fuel your life, find a way to do it

and To me and my situation at that time.

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I felt very hopeless very helpless

Like I couldn't get out of what I was

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going through And things escalated.

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And I ended up in the hospital.

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Oh, gosh.

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Yeah.

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And every person there in the hospital

told me, you need to put yourself first.

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You can't put other people first.

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You can't fill other people's

cups if your cup isn't full.

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And that was the biggest,

eye opener for me.

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And especially in relationships,

that one's hard for me.

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It's hard for me to be around people

that I can balance my, attention to.

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So since then, there was some,

unfortunate events that have happened,

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but, in my life now, I'm very

selective about who gets to enter it.

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That's huge.

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Yeah.

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I hate that you went through all that.

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And I know there was a lot of

heaviness and intensity that followed,

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but the fact that you from that

and made it into something that

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supports your wellbeing is amazing.

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I think that it's we were given the

same lessons over and over again in

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life until we figure out how to do it,

I think some people are smarter about

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listening and finding the pattern and

being like, okay, this is how you correct

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it and then they just go on, sometimes

they just have to have it the harsh way.

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Yeah.

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I've noticed it intensifies.

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Like it'll start off quiet and

then you don't listen and it's like

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knocking, banging on your door.

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Yeah.

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But once you do, I think that you end up

with the crowd that you want, the people

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that you want in your life, the people who

are going to support you forward versus

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the people who are going to drag you down.

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I'd love to talk about that for

a second, navigating friendships

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or relationships in general.

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How have you dealt with when you

definitely know this person is not

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someone you want to keep in your life?

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Especially friendships.

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We don't talk a lot about friendship

breakups you said you're Are now

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very mindful about who you let

into your inner circle and who's

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allowed to get around your energy.

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How do you manage that?

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Especially as a people pleaser,

because that means, that's hardcore

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boundaries, that's some like superhero,

bad ass people pleaser level stuff.

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There was a friend of mine, a friend who

has been in my life, probably since high

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school I considered this person to be

my best friend and there was some tension

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around things that had happened in my

personal life and this person I felt was

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not being as supportive as they could be.

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I felt like I had to walk

on eggshells around them.

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And one day they called me up and

asked me if I wanted to do something.

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And I said, I'd love to

do something with you.

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And normally I would just say yes,

it seems like after every time

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I've hung out with you, I've gone

home and I've questioned myself.

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I've questioned who I am as

a person and everything else.

317

: 00:15:36

So I'm like, I don't think that this

is the right thing to do at the time.

318

: 00:15:39

And at first we talked and we had a,

difficult conversation, but I still

319

: 00:15:43

don't feel that it had the conclusion

that things were going to be better.

320

: 00:15:47

So unfortunately I had to step

away and it's still been that way.

321

: 00:15:52

I miss that person, and I feel that

in the future, that Me and that person

322

: 00:15:57

will become friends again But there's

probably a reason right now that we

323

: 00:16:00

need to be On our own paths and doing

everything and maybe I need to be a

324

: 00:16:04

little bit stronger before I can hang out

with that person Again yeah makes sense.

325

: 00:16:08

What gave you the courage

to speak up like that?

326

: 00:16:11

That's huge.

327

: 00:16:12

I know you're being Nonchalant about it.

328

: 00:16:15

That's a big freaking deal to have

that conversation with someone.

329

: 00:16:18

I thought about it and part of me wanted

to say, just do it, just go ahead and do

330

: 00:16:21

it because, that's your friend's reaching

out to you and That's a beautiful thing.

331

: 00:16:25

But then I was just like, you know what?

332

: 00:16:27

No, because every single time and I

keep giving the benefit of the doubt.

333

: 00:16:31

And I think that might be

something people pleasers do.

334

: 00:16:33

Oh, the benefit of the doubt

has been my wreck and ruin of

335

: 00:16:37

many romantic relationships.

336

: 00:16:41

That's true.

337

: 00:16:41

I could see that.

338

: 00:16:42

Friendships or work things.

339

: 00:16:45

It's true.

340

: 00:16:46

But yeah, so I think that this time

I just had to say something and I

341

: 00:16:50

finally did and it was big to say it.

342

: 00:16:53

And then after that I was upset.

343

: 00:16:55

I was upset that I lost my friend.

344

: 00:16:56

But at the same time, I didn't have that

internal chatter going on in my head.

345

: 00:17:02

And I didn't have to

question things afterwards.

346

: 00:17:04

And so unfortunately it

is what it is right now.

347

: 00:17:07

And in certain ways I am,

maybe physically healthier.

348

: 00:17:10

The interim tension and sadness , and

the grief that came after, was

349

: 00:17:16

outweighed by the lightness, the clarity.

350

: 00:17:20

Just like that self doubt that I felt

And I think sometimes if you're like,

351

: 00:17:25

I'm a very sensitive person, I will

cry all the time, like everything,

352

: 00:17:29

everything pretty much upsets me.

353

: 00:17:31

So I guess you have to take

me with a grain of salt.

354

: 00:17:33

No, but being highly in tune with your

emotions is a fricking superpower.

355

: 00:17:40

I hear that.

356

: 00:17:41

I don't see it.

357

: 00:17:44

I know I've had to repeat that

to myself five million times over

358

: 00:17:49

the course of probably a decade

and now I truly believe it.

359

: 00:17:52

I didn't at first either myself.

360

: 00:17:54

Can you tell me how it is?

361

: 00:17:56

Tell me how it is on the other side.

362

: 00:17:58

No.

363

: 00:17:58

Can you just tell me

how it is a superpower?

364

: 00:18:00

Oh, how is it?

365

: 00:18:03

I'm going to get

philosophical on you here.

366

: 00:18:04

All right.

367

: 00:18:06

We are given this one life,

this one human experience.

368

: 00:18:09

And.

369

: 00:18:11

If you are deeply feeling, that

means you are deeply experiencing

370

: 00:18:15

what it means to be human.

371

: 00:18:16

I think so much is surrounded by this

toxic positivity, bullshit, culture,

372

: 00:18:22

shenanigans, that everyone thinks

that everything should be rainbows

373

: 00:18:27

and butterflies and gumdrops should

be falling from the sky and everyone

374

: 00:18:30

should be skipping down the street.

375

: 00:18:31

And if you have.

376

: 00:18:33

Bad feeling pop up then, Oh

my God, you better fix it.

377

: 00:18:36

Cause everything should,

you know, you got this.

378

: 00:18:39

Everything's good.

379

: 00:18:41

Gag me.

380

: 00:18:42

Whereas feeling your emotions

means you're feeling the full

381

: 00:18:46

experience of being human.

382

: 00:18:48

Like the full spectrum.

383

: 00:18:49

You're not walking through life being

a zombie, either a zombie, not feeling

384

: 00:18:53

or a positivity zombie where you're

ignoring different parts of your life.

385

: 00:18:58

Right.

386

: 00:18:58

. Yeah.

387

: 00:18:59

So that's how I think it's a

superpower because not everyone can

388

: 00:19:01

do that or is willing to do that.

389

: 00:19:05

People who are maybe more apt to feel

strong emotions are taught from a young

390

: 00:19:10

age to, you Stop crying, suck it up, to

stop having emotions because other people

391

: 00:19:15

don't know how to handle their emotions.

392

: 00:19:17

So if someone's expressing their own, it

makes the people in the room uncomfortable

393

: 00:19:21

because they don't know what to do.

394

: 00:19:23

And I went from being

shamed about that to.

395

: 00:19:27

Like you were saying about your co

worker dealing with their emotions.

396

: 00:19:30

I'm sorry.

397

: 00:19:31

You can figure out a way to handle

me crying or me being joyful.

398

: 00:19:35

I'm sorry.

399

: 00:19:35

You're your own sovereign being.

400

: 00:19:36

That's not your problem.

401

: 00:19:38

That went from a little

speech to a little lecturing.

402

: 00:19:41

I get a little heated.

403

: 00:19:43

You know what?

404

: 00:19:43

I'm not going to apologize because that's

also an emotion I'm feeling just now.

405

: 00:19:47

But that's true.

406

: 00:19:48

I think there's a lot of people

out there who, put out ways of this

407

: 00:19:51

is how I'm supposed to be handled.

408

: 00:19:53

Yes.

409

: 00:19:53

Which is weird because I guess that's

a boundary where you're saying like,

410

: 00:19:56

this is exactly how, this is the

prescription for how to handle me.

411

: 00:20:00

But then there's people who I think they

have the expectation in their head of

412

: 00:20:04

how people should interact with them.

413

: 00:20:06

Yes.

414

: 00:20:07

And one of the things I feel

a little bit like I'm on the

415

: 00:20:10

neurodivergent, side of things.

416

: 00:20:12

And to me, it just drives me crazy

because I'm like, not everybody gets it.

417

: 00:20:17

Everybody has a different way of

communicating, of expressing things.

418

: 00:20:21

And also like growing up with people who

are neurodivergent, I've also learned

419

: 00:20:25

that, whatever, they just got to do

what they got to do to get through it.

420

: 00:20:29

And I think Society as a whole

should just be a little bit

421

: 00:20:32

more accepting of everybody.

422

: 00:20:34

We're so focused as a culture on

423

: 00:20:37

putting restrictions on certain words.

424

: 00:20:39

And I think that it's more important

that we just learn to accept as opposed

425

: 00:20:44

to limit and have the expectation.

426

: 00:20:46

People are going to follow my rules.

427

: 00:20:48

People are going to use these words.

428

: 00:20:50

And, instead we could just

say, accept, take me as I come.

429

: 00:20:55

I'll piggyback on that.

430

: 00:20:56

And say that it's everyone's personal

responsibility to manage their

431

: 00:20:59

nervous system and emotions that too.

432

: 00:21:02

And I think that's an angle

that I really worked on.

433

: 00:21:04

And has trickled down and helped me

stop people pleasing as much because

434

: 00:21:09

it took that load off my back that it's

my job to try to manage everyone else.

435

: 00:21:14

everyone else is their

own sovereign being.

436

: 00:21:16

And Abraham Hicks talks about having

your own inner guidance system.

437

: 00:21:19

Who am I to try to

control their navigation?

438

: 00:21:22

Everyone is here having

their own Human experience.

439

: 00:21:25

And if they don't want to learn how to

navigate their emotions and feel that

440

: 00:21:30

human experience fully, that's not my

problem, but I'm done restricting myself.

441

: 00:21:35

I'm going to feel it all from feeling

depressed and feeling like shit.

442

: 00:21:39

feeling full fricking joy.

443

: 00:21:41

That's where I am.

444

: 00:21:42

sometimes I do self silence.

445

: 00:21:44

I'll notice that I do quiet myself.

446

: 00:21:47

in my mind, my brain is saying

you're being too much, but then I

447

: 00:21:50

think Who's saying it's too much?

448

: 00:21:53

Whose voice is that?

449

: 00:21:54

Because inner true Jenny

is let yourself shine.

450

: 00:21:58

She's not saying you're too much.

451

: 00:22:00

We often try to associate negativity

with the way things are lower or

452

: 00:22:05

that higher vibrational is better.

453

: 00:22:07

Things are just what they are.

454

: 00:22:09

that's what we had the earth here

for, to also help process these

455

: 00:22:13

emotions and recycle them or transmute

them into something different.

456

: 00:22:17

it's a cycle, just like how winter and

fall and summer and spring are all cycles.

457

: 00:22:21

We go through things and we learn from

them and I believe what you said to

458

: 00:22:25

me this past weekend was you can't

have The light without the dark.

459

: 00:22:29

yin and yang a balance of and I don't

even like saying good or bad feelings

460

: 00:22:34

anymore either like lower high vibes.

461

: 00:22:36

I've never had a major change come

in my life from Feeling great.

462

: 00:22:44

Usually stuff breaks down or shit

hits the fan, light and dark could

463

: 00:22:48

even be seen as just up and down a

scale, I love this with Abraham Hicks.

464

: 00:22:54

I'll put it in the show notes.

465

: 00:22:55

They talk about your inner guidance

system, but then they talk about

466

: 00:22:58

their emotional scale there are

different actual frequencies

467

: 00:23:02

associated with different emotions.

468

: 00:23:04

It's natural to ebb and flow up and

down, from frustrated to Happy all the

469

: 00:23:09

way down to anger and go up the scale and

reach contentment Like that is normal.

470

: 00:23:15

If you're not doing

that, that's the problem.

471

: 00:23:17

Yeah, I do think that it's our

responsibility though that when we do

472

: 00:23:20

become Triggered in some way or the other

that we learn how to process that in a

473

: 00:23:24

way that's not disruptive to the other

people around Oh, yes, you know exactly

474

: 00:23:29

agree I will say in episode 10 with my

former therapist, Glynn, she does mention

475

: 00:23:36

the fact that it doesn't matter even

if you treat someone poorly, you're not

476

: 00:23:40

responsible for how they respond to you.

477

: 00:23:43

And I think that relates perfectly

to what you said because it implies

478

: 00:23:48

that everyone is responsible for

regulating their own emotions.

479

: 00:23:51

Even if someone's treating

you like shit, it's still your

480

: 00:23:54

job and how you respond to it.

481

: 00:23:57

Yes.

482

: 00:23:58

But that is not giving you a

permission slip, everyone, to go be a

483

: 00:24:01

jackass to people right now, either.

484

: 00:24:03

I said this already in another episode,

but, people, pleasers who are trying

485

: 00:24:07

to recover always say, I'm in my

villain era, cause people feel, they

486

: 00:24:13

feel like they're being such a badass

rebel because they're saying, No,

487

: 00:24:17

I don't want to go to that concert.

488

: 00:24:20

It's funny because even like getting ready

for this podcast, there was something

489

: 00:24:24

it was just a stupid reel that I saw

on like Instagram where this girl was

490

: 00:24:28

seeing a potential house that she wanted

to buy and then it was too expensive.

491

: 00:24:32

And then she was just like

no, I don't like this.

492

: 00:24:34

And I was like, Oh, just

to say, I don't like this.

493

: 00:24:37

Oh, yeah.

494

: 00:24:38

You know what I mean?

495

: 00:24:39

Like that to me, that's so hard to do.

496

: 00:24:41

Just to be like, no,

I'm not enjoying this.

497

: 00:24:43

I feel like no matter what I do, I

have to be like, Oh, this is great.

498

: 00:24:47

Yeah.

499

: 00:24:48

It's a great experience.

500

: 00:24:50

Regulating your emotions doesn't

just happen though, right?

501

: 00:24:53

We have to have these routines and

we have to have habits set in place

502

: 00:24:57

and it takes diligent practice.

503

: 00:24:59

Dedicated practice in our daily lives.

504

: 00:25:02

Do you have anything that you

do that you'd highly recommend?

505

: 00:25:05

Yes.

506

: 00:25:06

So I've been waking up

early, which is horrible.

507

: 00:25:11

Nobody loves doing that.

508

: 00:25:12

I'm such a night owl.

509

: 00:25:14

I know.

510

: 00:25:14

And like my friend and I, we used to

make fun of other, like we had to go

511

: 00:25:17

to a baby shower and somebody sitting

there and they're talking about how

512

: 00:25:20

they wake up and run and we're like,

Oh nerd, nerd, health nut, whatever.

513

: 00:25:26

But here I am.

514

: 00:25:27

It's part of life.

515

: 00:25:28

I think you do need to set some

discipline for yourself and it's

516

: 00:25:32

important to find a little bit of peace

in your life and I have the luxury

517

: 00:25:37

right now of not having any other

social responsibilities when I wake up.

518

: 00:25:41

But there are people who, have

a full family and a full life.

519

: 00:25:46

And I feel bad for the people who

don't have the moment to take, but

520

: 00:25:49

You need to find a way and that

comes back to people pleasing.

521

: 00:25:52

You need to find a way of putting

yourself first, especially for mothers.

522

: 00:25:56

I think that's something that a lot

of mothers struggle with and I think

523

: 00:25:59

it ends up falling on their shoulders.

524

: 00:26:01

But yeah, in the morning I generally

wake up, take care of my dog and then

525

: 00:26:05

I will sit down and do some meditation.

526

: 00:26:08

Try to do some yoga, some slow moving

yoga so that realigns back, it's

527

: 00:26:14

just a little that's really what

self care is finding a way to

528

: 00:26:17

put yourself first, finding a way

of taking care of your vessel.

529

: 00:26:20

Your body's a temple and I think that

falls into that is praising your temple.

530

: 00:26:25

Oh, I like how you worded that.

531

: 00:26:27

What type of meditation do you practice?

532

: 00:26:29

I try a bunch of different ones.

533

: 00:26:31

I've been doing some recapitulating.

534

: 00:26:34

What is that?

535

: 00:26:35

It's basically like you breathe in,

you look all the way to the right,

536

: 00:26:39

you breathe in, and then you turn your

head to the left and you breathe out.

537

: 00:26:43

And do you breathe as you're

turning or no, you hold it.

538

: 00:26:47

You breathe in on the right

hand side and then hold it.

539

: 00:26:50

And then breathe out

on the left hand side.

540

: 00:26:53

I'm probably going to get this

wrong, but I believe the right hand

541

: 00:26:56

side is like your logical brain.

542

: 00:26:58

And then left hand side in the sense is

like the present moment and letting go.

543

: 00:27:04

So it's like you're recalibrating

yourself to the current moment.

544

: 00:27:08

It's very simple, but then

like in between some of those

545

: 00:27:12

exercises and you shake your head.

546

: 00:27:14

To left and you could feel the difference

in your head and it just feels like

547

: 00:27:18

it's almost trance Like . Do you only

breathe right to left or do you then you?

548

: 00:27:23

Reverse it and go left to right or no,

I think it's just right to left right

549

: 00:27:26

to left right to left Oh interesting.

550

: 00:27:28

I have to look this up.

551

: 00:27:29

will also link It in the show notes.

552

: 00:27:32

Yeah, there's just some

easy meditations like that.

553

: 00:27:35

There's like those 5d

ascension type of things.

554

: 00:27:37

I do feel them like I feel my body

Vibrate after I do some of those

555

: 00:27:41

.

So I love doing that.

556

: 00:27:44

I love just doing any type of chakra

cleanse and then you know with yoga that

557

: 00:27:48

I do the yin yoga for neck and back.

558

: 00:27:50

I was doing qigong for a little bit too.

559

: 00:27:53

Oh, nice.

560

: 00:27:53

I love that.

561

: 00:27:54

I wanted to get into it.

562

: 00:27:55

Yeah.

563

: 00:27:56

the idea is that it's

like a daily practice.

564

: 00:27:58

And it's supposed to be beneficial

over the long run because

565

: 00:28:01

you're doing it every day.

566

: 00:28:02

Gotcha.

567

: 00:28:03

But maybe the exercise I was

doing, I was just like, I don't

568

: 00:28:06

want to see where this is going.

569

: 00:28:08

So I forfeited that one for a bit.

570

: 00:28:10

But again, it's just it's good to

get up and do something for yourself.

571

: 00:28:15

Even today, I didn't end up doing any

meditation or yoga, but I took care of

572

: 00:28:19

some chores and just to get that out

of the way, I'm one of the people who

573

: 00:28:23

struggle with putting away their laundry,

just like getting that out of the way You

574

: 00:28:27

feel better about yourself afterwards.

575

: 00:28:29

And it feels great when you

get home because since it's

576

: 00:28:31

so early in the morning, it's

almost like a magic fairy game.

577

: 00:28:34

Yep.

578

: 00:28:35

That's how I'd always feel if I like, I

don't know, emptied the dishwasher at 6am.

579

: 00:28:39

Then I get home later in the day and

I'm like, Oh, it's like that picture

580

: 00:28:43

of Nick Cage or he's like in the

woods or Seth Rogen or whatever it is.

581

: 00:28:47

I know who you're talking about.

582

: 00:28:51

Do you have any books or speakers

or people to follow that have

583

: 00:28:55

really helped you on your

People Pleaser recovery journey?

584

: 00:28:58

I think it's still in the back of my head

to try and focus on the four agreements.

585

: 00:29:04

Yes.

586

: 00:29:05

I think that's really important,

like not taking anything personally

587

: 00:29:10

whether it's good or bad it's very

helpful because I think that, for me,

588

: 00:29:14

I take a lot of things personally.

589

: 00:29:16

So that's the very first one.

590

: 00:29:17

And I think that when you start realizing

that everything is just a reflection

591

: 00:29:22

of a person whether it's a good thing

or a bad thing, it's just it's them.

592

: 00:29:26

It's not you.

593

: 00:29:26

And when you start minimizing the approval

that you need from somebody else, or

594

: 00:29:32

disapproval you need from somebody else.

595

: 00:29:33

You're strengthening yourself.

596

: 00:29:35

You're right.

597

: 00:29:35

And then you don't need

the outside influence.

598

: 00:29:38

Don't make assumptions, which is

people pleasing 101, you're assuming

599

: 00:29:41

they're going to be mad at you.

600

: 00:29:42

Exactly.

601

: 00:29:43

You're assuming this person's

going to be disappointed.

602

: 00:29:45

Some people care, some people don't

care what you do, and it doesn't

603

: 00:29:49

matter because it's up to them.

604

: 00:29:50

It is to manage their own expectations

and the old saying don't assume

605

: 00:29:55

it makes an ass out of you and me

606

: 00:30:00

Be impeccable with your words is

probably the biggest one for me

607

: 00:30:03

so I think that's just

clarity for everyone.

608

: 00:30:05

Clear as kind.

609

: 00:30:06

Ooh, clear is kind.

610

: 00:30:07

Is that your bumper sticker?

611

: 00:30:09

It should be.

612

: 00:30:10

Oh my gosh.

613

: 00:30:10

We didn't even get to that part,

but clear as kind would be a killer.

614

: 00:30:15

People pleaser bumper sticker.

615

: 00:30:17

I love that.

616

: 00:30:18

It reminds me of the five

precepts of Reiki as well.

617

: 00:30:22

Oh yeah.

618

: 00:30:23

They're similar.

619

: 00:30:23

And there's all different

versions of that, but I like the

620

: 00:30:26

one where you're Do not anger.

621

: 00:30:27

Do not worry.

622

: 00:30:29

Be humble.

623

: 00:30:30

Be honest in your work.

624

: 00:30:32

Be compassionate towards

yourself and others.

625

: 00:30:35

Very similar vibe to the four

agreements and I live my life by

626

: 00:30:39

both of them like you said, it

takes the habit and dedication.

627

: 00:30:42

You don't just read this book, The

Four Agreements, and then, wha bam!

628

: 00:30:46

You're healed!

629

: 00:30:48

No.

630

: 00:30:49

I would say also Working

on your parts work.

631

: 00:30:52

Oh, I think that's huge.

632

: 00:30:54

Internal family systems.

633

: 00:30:55

it was created by Richard Schwartz.

634

: 00:30:57

He basically talks about how you are

comprised of a bunch of different

635

: 00:31:01

parts in your body and all these

parts work together to regulate you

636

: 00:31:05

or to make you work in a way that

makes sense to all these parts.

637

: 00:31:10

The mastery is learning how to

be the self and the self having

638

: 00:31:14

the control over the parts.

639

: 00:31:17

When I say control, that's probably

not the best word because the idea

640

: 00:31:20

is that you accept all your parts.

641

: 00:31:22

You accept the people pleaser in you.

642

: 00:31:24

I have a nasty school teacher inside of

me, there's all these different parts

643

: 00:31:29

that comprise you and it's not about

banishing them even if they are the

644

: 00:31:34

thing that causes you the most grief.

645

: 00:31:36

You just have to come to terms with it

and when you start to come to terms with

646

: 00:31:39

things then you start learning to accept.

647

: 00:31:42

And in regards to People pleasing I think

it's acknowledging that part of you

648

: 00:31:46

was there and It's trying to help you in

some way, but when you become More in

649

: 00:31:51

tune with who's trying to run your boat.

650

: 00:31:53

Then you could be like, it's

okay I get where you're coming

651

: 00:31:55

from but We can handle it this way.

652

: 00:31:58

So how do you literally do that?

653

: 00:32:00

Do you have a conversation in your

head or do you think it through?

654

: 00:32:04

Do you journal?

655

: 00:32:05

You can journal.

656

: 00:32:06

I use the insight timer app and

there are internal family system

657

: 00:32:10

meditations that you can listen to.

658

: 00:32:12

Yeah.

659

: 00:32:13

And so some of them will prompt

you also the book that he wrote.

660

: 00:32:16

If you listen to it on audio book, he has

a couple of exercises that he narrates.

661

: 00:32:21

As well.

662

: 00:32:21

I think it's helpful because

then what happens is, so you do

663

: 00:32:24

the activity and then you start

learning who these parts are.

664

: 00:32:28

I even drew some of them out.

665

: 00:32:30

And then you start

realizing like this one.

666

: 00:32:33

Interacts with this one because of X.

667

: 00:32:35

This one interacts because of Y, whatever.

668

: 00:32:37

And then you start learning

how you can manage that part.

669

: 00:32:41

You could be like, I see that.

670

: 00:32:42

I see that you're upset.

671

: 00:32:43

I see how you're feeling fear

right now, but you know what?

672

: 00:32:47

I think that we can handle this.

673

: 00:32:49

Over time you start realizing how

you can manage it and manage it in a

674

: 00:32:53

healthier way where you're not relying

on this part to run your show for you.

675

: 00:32:57

Those will be linked in the show notes

for sure, because I'm sure everyone's

676

: 00:33:01

gonna want to give this a try.

677

: 00:33:02

How often do you do the meditation?

678

: 00:33:05

I try doing it a couple times a week.

679

: 00:33:07

Thank you for bringing that up.

680

: 00:33:08

Yeah, no problem.

681

: 00:33:09

It seems you've really embraced the

psychological aspect of healing people

682

: 00:33:15

pleasing, which I absolutely love.

683

: 00:33:17

What gives you the motivation

to keep going on this?

684

: 00:33:20

Because, sometimes issues

are easier to people please.

685

: 00:33:23

I think I recognized myself as being

a little bit of a victim mindset.

686

: 00:33:28

To me, I know it's something

that I struggle with and it's

687

: 00:33:31

something I want to change.

688

: 00:33:32

And the only way to change

it is to do something.

689

: 00:33:35

I see these patterns.

690

: 00:33:36

I see the patterns in my family

and I see how it affects everybody.

691

: 00:33:41

And I just want to be different.

692

: 00:33:43

I want to break the chains.

693

: 00:33:44

That's my major motivation.

694

: 00:33:46

maybe one day I'll have a family and

maybe I could pass along, learn knowledge

695

: 00:33:50

to them and have a different generation.

696

: 00:33:52

That's very noble of you and amazing.

697

: 00:33:55

Healing generational trauma, ancestral

trauma with all the work you're doing.

698

: 00:33:59

That's amazing.

699

: 00:34:00

Yeah.

700

: 00:34:01

I hope so.

701

: 00:34:02

of my guests what their bumper

sticker piece of advice would be

702

: 00:34:07

As a recovering people pleaser.

703

: 00:34:09

What would you put on

your bumper sticker, Jen?

704

: 00:34:12

The only way over is through.

705

: 00:34:14

Oh, it's true.

706

: 00:34:17

You just got to keep doing that hard work.

707

: 00:34:19

Okay.

708

: 00:34:20

The only way you're going to get

over it is you got to go through it.

709

: 00:34:27

I love it.

710

: 00:34:27

That's perfect.

711

: 00:34:28

Jenny, from one Jenny to another,

thank you so much for being here today

712

: 00:34:34

and giving us all this great advice.

713

: 00:34:36

Thank you, Jenny, for

letting me be on your show.

714

: 00:34:38

I really enjoyed my time on here.

715

: 00:34:40

Oh gosh, yes.

716

: 00:34:40

This has been a great conversation.

717

: 00:34:42

I know that you all listening have a

huge list of things that you can take

718

: 00:34:47

away and put into practice right away.

719

: 00:34:49

Books to read, all that jazz.

720

: 00:34:51

Make sure to check the show notes.

721

: 00:34:52

I'm sure we'll be talking again.

722

: 00:34:54

The Jenny and Jenny show will be back

on the air, even though this is a

723

: 00:34:58

podcast and I'm not on radio anymore.

724

: 00:35:02

Thank you all so much.