Ep 24: Family Dynamics, Caregiving, and Personal Boundaries: an interview with Kim

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I'm grateful for you being here

today, talking all things people

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pleasing, and who knows what'll

come up in our conversation.

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I know we've been

planning this for a while.

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Thanks for having me.

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Yeah, of course.

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You want to start off by telling

us a little bit about yourself?

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my name is Kim I'm 37.

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I've been doing improv comedy for

a little over two and a half years.

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I've been acting since 2006.

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I also am a paranormal investigator.

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Which is so cool.

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I might be going to Rolling

Hills on Friday What is that?

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It's called Rolling Hills asylum.

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Oh gosh.

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It's apparently very haunted.

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It's like the number one

spot that everybody goes to.

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And I've been everywhere, but this place.

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Oh, wow.

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Are you going with the crew

usually went with in the past?

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No, I had a brief team for the

paranormal investigating and

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two of them live in Canada.

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But the team disbanded because

two of our members moved down to

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Georgia and opened a tattoo studio.

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One of them's like a he was

on, what's that show called?

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The one with Dave Navarro.

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He's like a number one tattoo

artist and he was on that show.

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He tattooed Dave Navarro.

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He won a couple seasons.

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He's on my Paranormal team.

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Oh, cool.

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But he moved to Georgia

to open a tattoo studio.

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He's originally from Lockport.

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Cool.

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So I'm like, should I go?

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Shouldn't I go?

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I should do it before it gets cold.

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Oh yeah.

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Good point.

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Cause I don't like to

freeze when I investigate.

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Yeah.

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I don't blame you.

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Ghosts will already make

you feel cold enough.

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Right.

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And it's public hunt too.

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Oh, so like I'm used to private hunts

and I haven't done a public in a while.

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There could be a hundred people there.

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I don't know.

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Oh wow.

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Yeah.

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That'll either be distracting

or it'll drum up a bunch of,

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yeah, spiritual activity.

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You'll have to keep me posted.

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Yeah, for sure.

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We have our own paranormal

activity here in my office.

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That sounds like it's

beyond the next level.

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Here it's just a friendly ghost.

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Yeah, we have paranormal activity where

I live and I try not to investigate

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where I live because I did that before

and it was bad news, yeah, sometimes

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it's good to just be like, please

just go and not ask any questions.

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Not when you live there.

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Yeah, I don't hear you.

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I don't see you.

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I don't feel you.

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Yeah, out of sight, out of mind.

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This one here likes to follow me down the

stairs though at night, especially when

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I'm here by myself and I'm like, stop it.

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Please don't, you're scaring me.

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I don't appreciate this.

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I can feel it staring at me.

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It'll stop halfway down the stairs.

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That overlooks the walkway.

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It's an old house like this is like

over a hundred years old here And

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yeah, I can feel it staring at me.

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The one time it's followed

me into the kitchen.

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I didn't appreciate it, but it's okay

Yeah, I don't know if i'm that into it.

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I, just feel things I can't see things

So I don't know when Something's

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following me unless it touches me.

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Ooh.

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Yeah.

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This is more of a feeling it from,

you can tell someone's looking at you.

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I can just feel the energy.

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You know that gets me thinking, since

we're on People Pleaser podcast, are there

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ghosts that are People Pleasers still?

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Probably.

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Just because you died.

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Are you still a People Pleaser?

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If you haven't passed over?

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I would think so because

there's What do they call it?

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Residual energies?

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They do the same things.

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They're like stuck in

the same loop activities.

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Yeah, I would think so.

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Oh, that's interesting.

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Yeah.

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I feel my improv brain wants to

make a whole skit out of this now.

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That might be one of my questions

when I investigate on Friday.

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Are you a people pleaser?

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Oh my gosh, I love it.

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Yes.

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Because it's usually Oh,

how many ghosts are there?

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How did you die?

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I don't ask questions like that.

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Oh, okay, yeah.

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Because I don't want to know.

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Yeah, what were your what do

you feel like your biggest

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failures in life were, Goosebee?

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What are some things that you wish

you had worked on before you'd pass?

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For sure.

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You could have a therapy session.

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I believe it.

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If ghosts are real, then

that's gotta be real.

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Yeah, I agree.

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That's funny.

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Oh my gosh.

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Speaking of people pleasing, obviously

resonate as one or a recovered,

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recovering one as the fact that

you're right here on the show.

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I always like to ask people, was there

a specific moment when you realized,

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Oh shit, I'm a people pleaser.

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Or was it just a gradual thing?

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And like what age and

all that kind of stuff?

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I knew it was a thing, but I

didn't know it was a thing.

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And I've always been a

people pleaser, I feel like.

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But I would say it comes in waves.

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I was a people pleaser since age

12, as young as I can remember.

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Because like my mom was terminally ill.

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She had symptoms when I was 12,

got diagnosed when I was 14,

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so I had to take care of her.

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And to me, it's not really people

pleasing as far as she's concerned.

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It's more so my sister was the older one,

so I was pleasing my sister by helping my

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mom because I was the younger one, so I

was automatically pushed into that role.

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Yes, I understand what you're saying.

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I lost jobs granted I was 16 when I

got my first job, but my mom didn't

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have the care that she needed.

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Aides would not show up, or aides

would quit because they didn't want

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to work, or they didn't know what

they were getting into, so I would

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lose jobs to take care of my mom.

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Oh, wow.

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Yeah, that's a lot to shoulder.

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So I guess that's an example of

people pleasing but then in my

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adult life because even when like my

mom had passed on Before she passed

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I would say a couple years prior.

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I was 18 19 I finally had it and I'm

like I do everything, I'm moving out

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and it caused this whole explosion

within the family because My sister

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thought she was doing a lot, but really

she wasn't there day in and day out.

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She would pop in when she could, and

pop out when she wanted to leave.

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And she's like, I'm married, I have

a house, and All this stuff and I'm

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like, but what about my life, I

didn't sign up for this She's my mom.

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I love her.

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I want to take care of her, but I

need help, yeah So at that point I

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was like, I didn't care what happened.

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I'm leaving I'm doing my own thing I

will still show up like you do and we

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can share the responsibility that

just caused a whole thing between us.

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Then I feel like I stepped back

into that role more full time.

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I would spend nights at my mom's house.

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I was working three jobs.

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So I was again, people pleasing.

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I can't, I feel like I fall

back into it sometimes.

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It's interesting that you

mentioned how you just had enough.

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And you said, your sister enough's enough.

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I'm doing this.

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I feel like that's so common with us

people pleasers because we don't know

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how to set the boundaries and say no.

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So then I call it like my give a

damn is busted and I freak out.

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Whereas if we, that's the whole point

of recovery is to learn how to set those

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little expectations and along the way.

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So it doesn't build up that resentment.

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So I totally see myself

in what you're saying.

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I've done that numerous times,

whether it's with relationships

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or at work or whatever it may be.

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But I guess part of it is having

grace for yourself and not beating

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yourself up for doing that.

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Just understanding why it

comes to a head like that.

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And you might freak out.

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Yeah.

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My I didn't really freak out, I would

say, but I was always the quiet one.

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I would never speak up.

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If I seen something going

wrong, I would just stay quiet.

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Cause I'm like, no,

one's going to hear me.

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It's not going to make a

difference if I speak up.

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And my sister was ready

to physically fight me.

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When I was trying to leave the

house at 18, 19, whatever it was.

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Wow.

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And I had a relationship since age

15, which I'm still in right now.

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So to me, yeah, my sister was

married and she had a house.

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I was 18.

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My sister was 11 years older than me.

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So I hadn't had that opportunity

to get a house, to get married,

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but I had a relationship.

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I just felt what am I?

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Chopped liver, yeah.

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Placing more value because she was older

that was more meaningful or more valuable.

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Yeah.

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And it's hard.

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Like when my mom couldn't

do anything for herself.

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So I'm trying to spread my wings, but

I'm also hurting my mom at the same time.

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So it was very hard.

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Back then compared to now.

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Oh gosh.

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I can only imagine that's a lot

to shoulder and then to be giving

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of yourself and not having any

space to fill your cup and then

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not having anyone else support you.

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Yeah.

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Understandable.

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That was a lot that you went through.

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For sure.

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It's interesting that you said

your sister freaked out like that.

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I think that's a prime example of

why people sometimes have a fear of

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speaking up or setting boundaries,

which I feel like that's such a

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thrown around phrase right now.

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Like speaking up and having these

conversations and expressing your

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needs in a relationship, if people

are used to playing a certain role

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and you fitting in here and doing this

and serving me in a certain way, and

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now you've gone and used your voice

and you're trying to take up space.

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Oh no.

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So the boundary was

needed a million percent.

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I know people might be uncomfortable

with dealing with that conflict that

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arises, but that just tells you that.

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This hasn't been a true, authentic

exchange in this relationship

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if the person freaks out by

you expressing your needs.

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Yeah, and I felt like

I handled it maturely.

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I'm not saying like I'm so mature,

but my mom had a terminal illness.

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So I was already dealing with

that for four to six years.

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So I'm like, this is nothing.

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This will blow over, but it never did

because then my sister was involved in

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drugs and it just got worse and worse.

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We never repaired that

relationship before she passed.

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I guess I've done a lot of work

internally, but I don't know.

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I think I've just grown and I've

realized I'm not taking care of

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anyone else anymore, but myself.

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That's huge.

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Yeah, so even my dad somewhat depended

on me when his wife passed away.

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I took care of him in ways that

I shouldn't have but I don't

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regret it if that makes sense.

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Yeah, and I think that you bring up an

interesting topic because in another

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episode my interview with Caitlin, if

you go back and listen to that, she talks

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about the fact that you can give a hundred

percent in a relationship, but it's still

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only 50 percent of the relationship.

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And I think people pleasers

look at it as I'm responsible

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for a hundred percent of it.

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The reason I'm bringing that up is

because with your dad if he was going

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through a hard time, maybe it's going

to look 70, 30 for a little while.

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I think the key is to make sure if

you're compensating for someone else

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who's going through something hard,

that it doesn't stay that way forever.

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That it bounces back to 50 50 or people

will rise up and cover your extra

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percentage when you need it Yeah, see

I don't even know if that would have

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happened because then he passed like

there was so many deaths that I dealt

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with I know you've had so much trauma

in a short time and I don't know and

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people say that like you've had so

much loss and i'm like I have it

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sucks, but I can't live in that loss.

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But now, I'm taking care of me, and

there's literally no one else to take care

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of but me, so why not take care of me?

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Good point.

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Yeah.

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And I don't want that to come off

selfish, because I feel like some

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people would interpret that as selfish.

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And maybe it is a little selfish,

I don't know, but for example, I'm

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celebrating a birthday with a friend,

and the friend wants to do something

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that I don't typically do, or I've never

done so I'm scared to do, I'll try it.

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I'll try anything once.

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So me giving in to that, I

don't feel like that's people

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pleasing, whereas some might.

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If I'm totally against doing something,

I'm gonna say no, not for me, not

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doing it because I would want the same.

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If I am inviting a friend to a birthday,

whatever, get together, party, dinner.

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I would want that in return as well.

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Do you know what I'm trying to say?

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Yeah, completely get it.

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So it's basically, compromise

versus being walked on.

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I feel like that's like the thin

line with people pleasing, right?

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You're like, Oh, I'm always

saying yes to my friends, but

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then they don't say yes back.

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You're like it goes back to the,

this relationship's not 50 50.

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Yeah.

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I definitely get that, but cause then

like certain friends will do things,

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but then sometimes oh, I can't, I

have this or I have that, which I get.

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But when it's consistently in no,

not for me, maybe another time.

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I feel like is that relationship worth it?

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Oh, you bring up a really good point.

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My younger self, I will admit it, would

go into victim mode a little bit with

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that because I struggled with that myself.

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I always felt like I gave, and

then I wasn't always reciprocated.

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And I think that is a tinge of people

pleasing because I think there's an

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underlying feeling of I can't say no

because that makes me a bad friend.

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So then if friends do say no, then you're

like, Oh my God, I always say yes to you.

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So that is people pleasing.

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But then on the flip side, as

an adult, I'm also like, if this

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person keeps saying no, I'm like,

do we even have anything in common?

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why am I investing any time and

energy into this friendship?

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Because if I'm suggesting shit and

you're like no, I don't like that.

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Then we're on different wavelengths.

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So I don't know which one it would be.

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Don't know, and for the longest time

I had friends that we connected on so

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many things, and then Invite him to a

comedy show and they're like, oh, I don't

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like comedy more than once different

people and I'm like who doesn't like

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comedy Yeah, I just I don't get that.

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I don't get that either.

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Are you like offended?

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I don't know I don't like to laugh.

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I don't like to have a good time.

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Yeah I just still I don't get that

and we're not really friends anymore

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and I'm like was it the comedy Cause

we connected on so many other things.

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I've noticed that my friendships are

like a mirror of who I am and what

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my values are at the time sometimes.

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Yeah.

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And then when it starts to have

resistance or maybe I have those

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situations, like you just said of I

can't believe they didn't show up again.

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I've used those times to

reflect how have I changed?

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Why are we not meshing anymore?

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How is my energy level or my

frequency different than them?

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Or maybe you're just seeing them for

who they really are without your people

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pleaser blinders on because I feel

like people pleasers sometimes put

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their blinders up, and they want to see

everything with rose colored glasses,

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because , if you look at how things

really are, that means you're going to

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feel pain, and there's going to be a

conflict, and, oh my god, please no.

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See, I'm good with conflict, I feel like.

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I don't know, I don't see the

world in black and white, and

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I know a lot of people do.

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Yeah.

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And I don't understand that I'm

very gray when I look at things.

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So can I ask, then What is your

definition of people pleasing ? Because

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a lot of people feel the core premise,

the psychological thing behind people

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pleasing is avoiding pain, avoiding

conflict, avoiding difficult feelings.

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How do you know you're people pleasing?

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Do you feel it in your body?

325

: 00:14:59

Like for me, I started

to get stomach cramps.

326

: 00:15:02

I get anxious and I

sometimes I get resentful.

327

: 00:15:05

I feel a bubble of resentment

coming up in my chest.

328

: 00:15:08

I wouldn't say that.

329

: 00:15:09

No, but another example, years ago,

probably: 2017

330

: 00:15:15

wife, We had an acquaintance from

high school, hadn't talked in years.

331

: 00:15:21

She reached out on Facebook Hey,

I'm having this bonfire come over.

332

: 00:15:26

And apparently she liked us,

but didn't really associate with

333

: 00:15:30

us that much in high school.

334

: 00:15:31

I've heard that a lot from people that

we've reconnected with in high school.

335

: 00:15:35

Oh yeah.

336

: 00:15:35

We thought you were great, but

I'm like, you never talked to me.

337

: 00:15:38

So I feel like people pleasing with me is

more being taken advantage of Because I

338

: 00:15:44

would give anyone the shirt off my back.

339

: 00:15:46

I would, not anymore I'm very selective

with who I do that with but like she

340

: 00:15:52

got us there and you know All these

things and she has four kids and

341

: 00:15:57

three of them were brittle diabetics.

342

: 00:16:00

She was posting on Facebook about all

this, like I had to take so and so

343

: 00:16:03

to the ER because his sugar was at

a level where he was about to die.

344

: 00:16:08

She reached out to us after this

little get together and was like,

345

: 00:16:12

listen, I'm going to lose my house.

346

: 00:16:14

I need money for rent, for gas, for food.

347

: 00:16:16

Oh, yeah.

348

: 00:16:19

And I'm Like I never gave her money.

349

: 00:16:21

this is the first time we've reconnected

Yeah, Cryss is like I feel bad because

350

: 00:16:26

her kids have diabetes and i'm like,

yeah, I feel bad too and I feel like

351

: 00:16:29

kids change The dynamic sometimes.

352

: 00:16:32

True.

353

: 00:16:33

But now, thinking about it

she was gonna pay us back.

354

: 00:16:36

I'm like, we really can't

afford it, but we did it.

355

: 00:16:39

Ah.

356

: 00:16:40

And, I'll pay you back, I'll pay you back.

357

: 00:16:42

Never saw this money.

358

: 00:16:44

And get deleted off Facebook after

we had asked after a year Hey, are

359

: 00:16:47

you planning on paying us back?

360

: 00:16:49

Like little by little

anything get deleted.

361

: 00:16:53

So from what you're saying,

that is such a unique, different

362

: 00:16:56

angle of people pleasing.

363

: 00:16:57

I don't think I've had anyone bring

this up yet, but it's a Obviously,

364

: 00:16:59

really real world viable example

of people pleasing in that you feel

365

: 00:17:04

like everyone deserves your kindness.

366

: 00:17:06

Everyone deserves your

gratuitous behavior.

367

: 00:17:10

That everyone deserves to be on the

receiving end of you giving it all.

368

: 00:17:15

That could lead to a whole philosophical

conversation about the difference

369

: 00:17:20

between being nice and kind and when

you can actually say no, like you

370

: 00:17:26

don't have to help every single person.

371

: 00:17:28

Yeah.

372

: 00:17:29

And I feel like that came

from me helping my mom.

373

: 00:17:32

Oh, of course.

374

: 00:17:33

Empath, caregiver.

375

: 00:17:34

I've always worked in

medical, mental health.

376

: 00:17:37

And I'm like, this is

the right thing to do.

377

: 00:17:39

I'll figure it out.

378

: 00:17:40

If I don't have any

money, I'll figure it out.

379

: 00:17:42

But they need this money more

than I do, yeah, self sacrificing.

380

: 00:17:47

Now I'm just like, no.

381

: 00:17:49

Good for you.

382

: 00:17:50

Seeing that is huge because some

people, it takes a long time.

383

: 00:17:54

It takes decades to wake up from that.

384

: 00:17:56

Yeah.

385

: 00:17:56

And it comes in waves too.

386

: 00:17:57

When I'm in a situation, it's

okay, who is this person?

387

: 00:18:01

Have we had a relationship?

388

: 00:18:03

Have they gone out of their way for me?

389

: 00:18:05

So I guess it's situational

when it comes up.

390

: 00:18:08

Do you still have that feeling pop up

though, when someone asks for help, that

391

: 00:18:12

initial, I should, case of the shoulds?

392

: 00:18:15

No, I would say no.

393

: 00:18:16

You've worked through that.

394

: 00:18:17

That's huge.

395

: 00:18:18

Yeah.

396

: 00:18:19

Do you have any techniques or any certain

ways that you worked through that?

397

: 00:18:23

How did you start to heal?

398

: 00:18:25

Any suggestions you have for people?

399

: 00:18:27

No, I mean, again, like another situation.

400

: 00:18:31

Everyone in my family literally died 2018.

401

: 00:18:33

There was just some light bulb that

went off because I was very heavy.

402

: 00:18:37

I had to lose weight.

403

: 00:18:38

I tried everything under the sun.

404

: 00:18:40

My mom had me on diets when I was younger.

405

: 00:18:43

And I was like, okay, this is my time

to focus on me, because I couldn't,

406

: 00:18:47

I was focusing on everyone else.

407

: 00:18:49

I lost 160 pounds.

408

: 00:18:51

Wow.

409

: 00:18:51

Amazing.

410

: 00:18:52

And I was always the type that would

watch those shows like they lost

411

: 00:18:55

200 pounds, I can never do that.

412

: 00:18:57

I did it.

413

: 00:18:58

And I wasn't trying to

do that, but it happened.

414

: 00:19:00

I feel like that was a reset for

me, and not to say that it gave me

415

: 00:19:05

tools to tell people no and stuff.

416

: 00:19:08

I feel like it's still a thing, but like

I said, I used to be shy and reserved

417

: 00:19:12

and quiet, and now if I feel like a

certain way, I'll just say how I feel.

418

: 00:19:17

Might not always be the right time

to, but I feel like being direct

419

: 00:19:22

in how I express myself has helped.

420

: 00:19:24

I don't know, people always thought

I was a bitch in high school

421

: 00:19:27

because I have resting bitch face.

422

: 00:19:29

People were scared of me in high

school and I didn't know that.

423

: 00:19:31

I'm like, nobody likes me,

I'm just gonna keep to myself.

424

: 00:19:34

Yeah.

425

: 00:19:34

And then I'm like, why were

they so intimidated by me?

426

: 00:19:38

Because I would not speak up.

427

: 00:19:40

I would be the quiet one.

428

: 00:19:42

I wouldn't trust people.

429

: 00:19:43

I wouldn't let people in.

430

: 00:19:44

And now I'm totally different.

431

: 00:19:45

It's just developed over the years.

432

: 00:19:48

It makes sense.

433

: 00:19:50

You started to allow yourself to

take up space and the weight came off

434

: 00:19:55

because to me, weight is protection.

435

: 00:19:59

I know I'm going to gain weight

when I'm going through a certain X,

436

: 00:20:02

Y, Z, because I feel unsafe and my

body is creating a natural barrier.

437

: 00:20:08

So somewhere in there I'm taking an

educated guess that you finally felt

438

: 00:20:13

free to take up space and be a part

of the equation and count and focus on

439

: 00:20:18

what you needed and allow yourself to

play an important part in your life.

440

: 00:20:22

You're number one person

that you took care of.

441

: 00:20:25

And then the weight fell off.

442

: 00:20:27

That makes sense.

443

: 00:20:27

Yeah.

444

: 00:20:28

Yeah.

445

: 00:20:28

I finally had a chance to take

care of me like physically.

446

: 00:20:31

Yeah.

447

: 00:20:32

I've also noticed I got treated

differently when I was smaller

448

: 00:20:35

than I do when I'm bigger.

449

: 00:20:37

Oh my gosh.

450

: 00:20:37

That's a whole other topic.

451

: 00:20:39

Yes.

452

: 00:20:39

Let's dive into that.

453

: 00:20:40

I've been treated just like in

the community recently, people

454

: 00:20:44

that I've known that were heavier,

that lost weight, they treated me

455

: 00:20:47

differently when they were heavier.

456

: 00:20:49

And now that they're smaller,

they just have this ego and

457

: 00:20:53

this cockiness about them.

458

: 00:20:54

The old me wouldn't say anything,

but the new me is that's not okay.

459

: 00:20:58

You're not going to treat me like that.

460

: 00:21:00

Good for you.

461

: 00:21:00

Yeah.

462

: 00:21:01

Yeah.

463

: 00:21:01

Whether it does anything, I

don't know, that's a whole

464

: 00:21:07

bias towards bigger bodies.

465

: 00:21:10

I'm still the same person.

466

: 00:21:11

Like I don't get it.

467

: 00:21:13

Yeah.

468

: 00:21:14

. Ironically, I'm technically

taking up more space because there

469

: 00:21:19

are more fat cells in my body.

470

: 00:21:21

I refuse to say I am fat.

471

: 00:21:22

I don't put that after I am, but

my body has retained more fat

472

: 00:21:26

cells than it had in the past.

473

: 00:21:27

So I'm literally taking up more space.

474

: 00:21:30

But, a lot of times when

this has happened in my life.

475

: 00:21:32

Emotionally, I feel like I'm

not allowed to take up space.

476

: 00:21:36

I'm not worthy of taking up space.

477

: 00:21:38

So physically I have this bubble

of protection around me, but

478

: 00:21:43

internally it's silencing.

479

: 00:21:46

I feel like whenever that's happened, in

the past, especially when I was younger,

480

: 00:21:50

it was because like, I was in an abusive

relationship and when I was dating him.

481

: 00:21:55

I gained a ton of weight and I

understand now it literally was

482

: 00:21:59

protection and I made myself smaller.

483

: 00:22:01

So maybe it's the people you're coming

across, then they haven't experienced that

484

: 00:22:06

physical smallness because they haven't

experienced the emotional bigness, right?

485

: 00:22:13

So in a way it's like people

pleasing when you swing the other

486

: 00:22:16

way, you're like, I don't know how

to use my voice, so I'm just gonna

487

: 00:22:19

be super direct and maybe aggressive and

said he's saying what I think maybe that's

488

: 00:22:24

what happens with people I don't know.

489

: 00:22:26

Yeah, I don't know.

490

: 00:22:27

Do you make sense?

491

: 00:22:27

Yeah, cuz like I could see by losing

the weight I guess you're losing the

492

: 00:22:32

mass, But you're getting the voice

and then when you gain the mass you

493

: 00:22:35

lose the voice that whole balance.

494

: 00:22:37

I've worked in mental health.

495

: 00:22:39

I have about 18 year

experience in mental health.

496

: 00:22:42

Emergency mental health, outpatient

mental health, long term care

497

: 00:22:47

mental health, everything.

498

: 00:22:48

Child, adolescent, adult, older adult.

499

: 00:22:51

Oh, because I don't think you

mentioned before that you're a nurse.

500

: 00:22:54

I'm supposed to be a nurse.

501

: 00:22:56

I have the degree.

502

: 00:22:57

I Nonetheless, I've had jobs in the

field, and I feel like, I don't want

503

: 00:23:02

this to come off the wrong way, but

there are a typical behavior that a

504

: 00:23:05

lot of patients exhibit for attention.

505

: 00:23:08

Some of them are attention seeking.

506

: 00:23:10

You don't want to not Acknowledge them

and acknowledge how they feel, but back

507

: 00:23:15

to the boundary thing, sometimes you

shouldn't make eye contact because

508

: 00:23:19

they're seeking attention and you don't

want to give them that attention because

509

: 00:23:23

you're giving them negative attention.

510

: 00:23:25

Oh yeah.

511

: 00:23:25

That's a good point.

512

: 00:23:26

So then later on, when they've calmed

down or self soothed or whatnot.

513

: 00:23:30

You'll go back and you'll give them that

attention, but it's positive attention.

514

: 00:23:34

It's not negative attention.

515

: 00:23:35

That makes sense So I feel like

that's helped me Establish boundaries

516

: 00:23:39

in a way in my own life Yeah, I think

that premise of that definitely could

517

: 00:23:44

translate to just day to day life.

518

: 00:23:46

That makes sense especially that makes

me think of that's like a pattern

519

: 00:23:49

in a lot of romantic relationships,

especially codependent ones where

520

: 00:23:54

The attention, even if you're

fighting, it's still attention.

521

: 00:23:57

He or she is still in the room with me.

522

: 00:23:59

We're engaged in this energy.

523

: 00:24:01

They're showing

524

: 00:24:02

they care because they're

pissed off, you know?

525

: 00:24:04

so like setting that boundary

of I'm not going to interact.

526

: 00:24:07

I'm not going to engage in this

conversation or this kind of energy.

527

: 00:24:12

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

528

: 00:24:13

You care about the person, even in work.

529

: 00:24:15

I cared about all my patients, but,

I'm not trying to cure them, I'm

530

: 00:24:19

trying to get them to develop coping

mechanisms that they're not used

531

: 00:24:24

to using they've harnessed this.

532

: 00:24:28

They've been traumatized, so this

is why they act the way they do.

533

: 00:24:31

I'm trying to heal that trauma

or help them heal that trauma.

534

: 00:24:34

Exactly.

535

: 00:24:34

Yeah.

536

: 00:24:34

But then on the other side, I would

say people pleasers feel like they're

537

: 00:24:39

supposed to help teach and heal and stuff.

538

: 00:24:41

And yeah, you don't have to, that's

one of my big lessons I've had to learn

539

: 00:24:45

is I am not so and so's therapist.

540

: 00:24:47

I am not so and so's counselor.

541

: 00:24:49

I'm not so and so's mom.

542

: 00:24:51

Even though it's my natural

instinct is like the healer, I am a

543

: 00:24:55

recovering rescuer, which I feel is

a subcategory of people pleasing.

544

: 00:24:59

So it's finding that balance of when

do I offer advice and help versus?

545

: 00:25:04

It's hard.

546

: 00:25:05

When do I protect my own well being

and not engage in this problem?

547

: 00:25:09

Yeah, and it's hard like I can dive deep

with someone and still protect myself.

548

: 00:25:15

I can have a conversation that's very

deep and draining one would say, but

549

: 00:25:21

I have this wall up where and I want to

say that this goes back to ghost hunting.

550

: 00:25:26

My work and my experience in comedy

and paranormal, I feel like it all

551

: 00:25:30

affects everything because I used

to go into a haunted place and just

552

: 00:25:35

yeah, you can, I never said you

could touch me or take my energy,

553

: 00:25:38

but I didn't protect myself going in.

554

: 00:25:40

I was just like I'm going to have

fun and I'm going to talk to ghosts.

555

: 00:25:44

And now when I go in, I protect myself.

556

: 00:25:46

I don't give permission to

touch me or use my energy.

557

: 00:25:50

That's huge.

558

: 00:25:51

For a while, I'm like, what is this?

559

: 00:25:53

This is stupid.

560

: 00:25:53

I'm saying this, but nothing's changing.

561

: 00:25:56

But I guess as long as

the intent is there.

562

: 00:25:59

So I do establish a very strong

boundary, I guess you would say, with

563

: 00:26:03

the paranormal, but then I feel like

I don't get as much evidence as I

564

: 00:26:07

used to because I have that boundary.

565

: 00:26:10

That makes sense.

566

: 00:26:11

Oh, that is such a, I feel like

that's a metaphor for life too.

567

: 00:26:15

Yeah.

568

: 00:26:16

Because then, this just popped in my head

as you were saying that, when I'm working

569

: 00:26:19

with the living people and I have these

boundaries up, I don't get as much either.

570

: 00:26:22

But my mind came to, I

don't get as much drama.

571

: 00:26:26

Yeah, yeah, so get used to the drama

and the chaos and then when you start

572

: 00:26:29

to say no or you start to Set those

boundaries then it feels weird and boring

573

: 00:26:34

because you're like wait What happened?

574

: 00:26:36

What are we supposed to

be talking about now?

575

: 00:26:39

I don't understand.

576

: 00:26:40

It's the same with the ghost.

577

: 00:26:41

Shouldn't you be scaring

the shit out of me right now?

578

: 00:26:43

I feel like they don't want to

talk to me because they're like

579

: 00:26:46

intimidated by me And that's how I

feel in real life a lot of the time.

580

: 00:26:49

Oh interesting.

581

: 00:26:51

Even just around people that I see

every day or weekly or whatnot.

582

: 00:26:55

Do I change that about me to

make people want to be around me?

583

: 00:27:00

I don't know.

584

: 00:27:01

It's weird.

585

: 00:27:01

Oh man.

586

: 00:27:02

That's a deep question.

587

: 00:27:03

I don't want to be fake either.

588

: 00:27:04

I was just going to say ask yourself,

who am I surrounding myself with?

589

: 00:27:08

Yeah.

590

: 00:27:09

And asking yourself who you really are.

591

: 00:27:11

Who you are in this moment

is that your true self?

592

: 00:27:14

That's a journey I've been on personally.

593

: 00:27:16

Yeah.

594

: 00:27:17

Because I feel having people pleased,

I always called myself a chameleon.

595

: 00:27:21

I could fit in with any group.

596

: 00:27:23

Yeah.

597

: 00:27:23

That's a great skill.

598

: 00:27:25

I get it.

599

: 00:27:25

Especially as a business

owner and blah, blah, blah.

600

: 00:27:28

But I also know that was

covert people pleasing.

601

: 00:27:31

I call it covert secret.

602

: 00:27:33

So for instance, say I was with

more studious higher brow claround

603

: 00:27:40

like that, I would probably tame

down the goofy cheesy bubbly side of

604

: 00:27:45

myself . It was like playing dress up.

605

: 00:27:47

I feel like you're doing

yourself a disservice though.

606

: 00:27:49

At least yeah.

607

: 00:27:50

Yeah, I don't want to do that.

608

: 00:27:52

It was a coping mechanism because if

my personality were going to butt up

609

: 00:27:56

against their personality and they're

so different that it would be so stark.

610

: 00:28:01

And I think that's essentially

what you're saying.

611

: 00:28:03

Like sometimes the way you approach

life and your energy and demeanor might

612

: 00:28:08

butt up against other personalities and

it's, Just because they're different.

613

: 00:28:12

So it like stands out more, but who's

to say one's better than the other?

614

: 00:28:17

Do you think who you are, your

personality, is your true full self?

615

: 00:28:20

Do you feel that you've undone all the

layers of the onion, as Shrek would

616

: 00:28:25

say, and this is your true expression

617

: 00:28:28

?

This is me.

618

: 00:28:29

This is my true self.

619

: 00:28:30

I would say yes, but I also don't want

to sound like, I have nothing to work on.

620

: 00:28:36

I would say so.

621

: 00:28:38

I'm very different than I used to be.

622

: 00:28:39

I'm very outspoken on a lot of things

and it rubs people the wrong way.

623

: 00:28:44

Do you think you're outspoken because

you, the reason I'm asking this question

624

: 00:28:48

is because I've been there, done that.

625

: 00:28:50

When you haven't used your voice for

so long and it was rusty and, or didn't

626

: 00:28:55

even know how to speak up for yourself.

627

: 00:28:57

Like the pendulum swings so far the

other way for a lot of people pleasers.

628

: 00:29:00

And then you just want

to get it out there.

629

: 00:29:02

I feel like certain things that I've

spoken about or have had thoughts

630

: 00:29:06

about for a while, I'm like, does

no one else see why I'm frustrated?

631

: 00:29:11

I don't feel like I'm rude

about things, but maybe I am.

632

: 00:29:16

But then again, if I feel a type of

way and I'm going to say it, if I

633

: 00:29:20

censor that Oh, maybe I shouldn't

be so direct because they might be

634

: 00:29:25

offended and then I might be ostracized.

635

: 00:29:28

Isn't that people pleasing?

636

: 00:29:29

Yeah.

637

: 00:29:30

So I guess, this is so nuanced, right?

638

: 00:29:32

Because then it doesn't

mean go be an asshole.

639

: 00:29:34

Cause that's not the opposite

of people pleasing either.

640

: 00:29:36

Having some sense of decorum

and compassion for people too.

641

: 00:29:41

But I get what you're saying.

642

: 00:29:42

That's why I was asking.

643

: 00:29:43

Cause if that's authentically you

and it's not the pendulum swinging,

644

: 00:29:47

then I say, fuck it, be yourselves,

use your voice, take up space.

645

: 00:29:52

And if it rubs people

the wrong way, so be it.

646

: 00:29:55

So I wrap up every episode asking

my guest, if you could put a piece

647

: 00:29:59

of advice on a bumper sticker, what

would you put on there and why?

648

: 00:30:04

It's a song lyric by the famous Rick

Nelson and the Stone Canyon Band.

649

: 00:30:12

From 1972, no idea who they are.

650

: 00:30:15

Ricky Nelson, if oldies,

look up Ricky Nelson.

651

: 00:30:18

But it's a song called Garden Party.

652

: 00:30:20

The lyric is, you can't please

everyone, so you gotta please yourself.

653

: 00:30:25

Ooh.

654

: 00:30:26

And that wasn't intentional, with

people pleasing because the word please

655

: 00:30:29

is in it, it's just a song I really.

656

: 00:30:32

Resonate with.

657

: 00:30:33

Wow.

658

: 00:30:34

Can you say the, again, it's from

Garden Party you can't please everyone,

659

: 00:30:39

so you have to please yourself.

660

: 00:30:41

Oh my gosh, yes.

661

: 00:30:43

Basically he was a songwriter performer.

662

: 00:30:46

He was booed at Madison Square Garden.

663

: 00:30:50

What?

664

: 00:30:50

Yeah.

665

: 00:30:50

When he came on stage, because people

expected him to sing certain songs and

666

: 00:30:55

he didn't, he had a whole different

idea of what he wanted to perform.

667

: 00:30:59

So after a lifetime of pretending

to be a character, he wasn't, he

668

: 00:31:03

was on the set of Ozzie and Harriet.

669

: 00:31:06

After being a real rock star on

the weekends on the show, and in

670

: 00:31:11

the limelight, this performance,

he was writing and performing for

671

: 00:31:15

his own pleasure and satisfaction.

672

: 00:31:17

Not what everyone else wanted

he did what he wanted to do.

673

: 00:31:19

So he literally embodied the lyrics

of his song Yeah, wow, if you

674

: 00:31:24

listen to the lyrics, it's about

the show at madison square garden.

675

: 00:31:27

That's why it's called garden party.

676

: 00:31:28

Amazing.

677

: 00:31:29

I will link this in the show notes

678

: 00:31:31

.

Not only did you get amazing a song lyric, but you also got

679

: 00:31:34

an awesome song recommendation

and a new band to listen to.

680

: 00:31:38

I knew old band listened to.

681

: 00:31:40

Yeah.

682

: 00:31:40

He was like the Elvis before Elvis.

683

: 00:31:42

That's what I thought.

684

: 00:31:43

Okay.

685

: 00:31:43

Ricky Nelson, he was a heartthrob, right?

686

: 00:31:45

Yeah.

687

: 00:31:46

Yeah.

688

: 00:31:46

But then he like shed the persona

and wanted to be his true self.

689

: 00:31:49

That's frigging awesome.

690

: 00:31:51

He got booed at Madison square garden.

691

: 00:31:52

Talk about the ultimate recovered

people pleaser flex, getting

692

: 00:31:57

booed at Madison Square Garden.

693

: 00:32:00

I'm doing me, bitches.

694

: 00:32:01

I love it.

695

: 00:32:03

Everyone out there, channel

your inner Ricky Nelson.

696

: 00:32:06

Thank you so much for taking

time to be here today.

697

: 00:32:09

You're welcome.

698

: 00:32:10

Everyone take a look at the show notes

and check out the song garden Party.

699

: 00:32:15

Happy People Pleaser Recovering.

700

: 00:32:17

Thank you.