Ep 30: Childhood Trauma, Toxic Workplaces, and Finding Self-Worth: An Interview with Tracie Groves

Speaker: 00:00:00

I'm so glad you're here to talk

about your stories and experiences

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with people pleasing and being

on that recovery journey.

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How about you start us off by telling

us a little bit about who you are.

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Okay.

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My name is Tracy and I am a

recovering people pleaser.

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I am 53,

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Or actually, I guess I'm 54.

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I just had a birthday.

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but it really wasn't until

like a few years ago that I

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actually had my aha moment.

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Oh, really?

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Yeah.

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I was a people pleaser my entire life.

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I feel that, yeah.

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So I can definitely relate to

other people's stories for sure.

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And hopefully, maybe

some can relate to mine.

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I was an only child in an

abusive household and some of

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you can probably relate I'm sure.

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But my parents made it clear from an

early age that I just couldn't do anything

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right.

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Oh, that's hard.

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Yeah.

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So like my own early childhood,

especially, I just tried so hard to

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please them as any child typically

does, but I tried so, so hard

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and I just couldn't please them.

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But it just, it became part of my wiring.

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It became part of my sense of self, where.

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I'm unworthy, I'm unlovable.

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That kind of stuff.

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And I have to earn my love.

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Yes, pretty much wired into me.

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but you know, By the time I became a

teenager, started to stop trying so hard.

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In fact, I really stopped

trying at all to please them.

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But I started to make really good friends.

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Oh, wonderful.

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And yeah, they gave me the appreciation

and the love that I didn't have at home.

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But my people pleasing wiring that had

been instilled in me from childhood.

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Now sort of went onto my friends.

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And it was one of those

things where I felt like

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I have to earn their love.

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I, if I pleased them,

then they will love me.

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Which is I'm sure probably not

true and probably unfair, but that

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was how it was And, that sort

of followed me through college.

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It followed me through

marriage, motherhood.

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It really wasn't until, a few years

ago with therapy and kind of an aha

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moment that I'll get into later.

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That my.

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People pleasing stopped.

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And I started to have a better

sense of worth it was one of

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those things where I realized.

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If I say no to someone is

going to make them not love

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me, then they probably don't.

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Yes exactly.

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I have a question about your childhood.

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Do you have any certain behaviors or

memories that you can remember that you

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now know where people pleaser, like you

said, you wanted to make them happy.

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Was it being of service to

them or was it a grades thing?

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It was probably more of being

of service, but in fact, It

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was more of a being invisible.

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Ah, so my parents pretty much made

it clear they really never wanted me.

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Oh goodness.

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It was more of a I don't want to see you.

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I don't want to hear you.

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I don't want you to really be around.

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And so I tried so hard every day

just to be invisible and just

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to, Make them happy that way.

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Oh, wow.

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That's a lot of heaviness.

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It is, it.

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It made me who I am.

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Yes.

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And, and and it made me a wonderful mother

because I, oh, you have to say that.

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I know some people.

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The saying goes that children

of abuse sometimes mirror What

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they learn or what they see.

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But in my case, it was more of I

did everything I could to be.

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Not that ah, yes, you are going to be the.

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What did they say?

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Generational curse breaker.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And I was very fortunate the friends

that I made in school, were from very

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loving families and their parents

were phenomenal parents and really

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loving and supporting parents.

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And they adopted me into their family.

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And so I had role models.

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That I wanted to reflect

rather than my parents.

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And yeah It is a lot of

weight, but it definitely.

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I'm not going to say that it hasn't

cost me a lot over the years.

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Through, through therapy I have to say

that I feel very healthy and grounded.

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I have a tattoo on my back.

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That's a Lotus flower and I love that

imagery because lotuses grow in the mud.

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Yeah.

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So the idea is beauty that comes from.

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Really, mud.

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Dirt basically.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And I love that imagery and

I feel that about myself.

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That's beautiful.

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Yes.

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Thich Nhat Hahn has the

book, no mud, no Lotus.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Going through all the muck and mud

of our life does help us blossom

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into who we are supposed to be.

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I agree, a hundred percent beautiful.

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I love that.

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How do you define people pleasing?

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Because everyone so far has

had a different definition.

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And it's so intriguing to me.

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Ah for me, people pleasing is saying

yes to the detriment of myself.

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Ooh, I like that.

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That could be a bumper sticker.

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Oh, there you go.

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But an anti bumper sticker.

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I'm nothing.

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If not poetic.

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Wonderful.

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Saying yes to the detriment of myself.

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Yes.

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How do you know that

it's to the detriment?

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When I don't feel good after saying yes.

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Do you often experience resentment

too, does that happen for you?

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Absolutely.

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Similarly happens all the time.

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Especially I find family

Eh, not so much friends.

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But sometimes, but , more often than not

it's family, because it feels like when

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I say yes to the detriment of myself,

I feel resentful that I had to do that

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because I felt obligated to do it.

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Oh, yeah.

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The big obligation.

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Yes.

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That's quite the term, the talk loud.

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But then also I it's so nuanced

because of course healing from

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people pleasing doesn't mean that

pendulum swings the other way.

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And You can still be kind and say no.

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Yes exactly.

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And there's difference

between being nice and kind

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.

Nicest usually backed by a bunch of obligations and shoulds and probabl

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lingering resentment, whereas kind as

you've thought it through and this is.

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What I need to do.

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For my highest good.

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I'm glad you brought that up.

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I just love hearing how other people

define people pleasing it's specialized, I

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guess, to everyone's personal experiences.

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I call it abandoning yourself.

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Abandoning your connection between

you and you, meaning you and your

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highest self you and your soul.

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or you and your true essence.

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I love that.

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Yeah.

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Which does lead to a detriment?

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Absolutely.

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Lot of people would say there are a

worst traits then, somebody who's kind

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and somebody that is um, But in a lot

of ways And a lot of times it came at.

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The, I don't want to say peril.

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That's a little hyperbolic, but

it came at a detriment to myself.

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Yeah.

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The expense.

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Exactly.

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And wearing yourself thin and saying yes,

because if I don't, they won't love me.

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And even for people that is

a hundred percent not true.

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And I know it.

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Friends and family in particular,

who I love and who I do know love me

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in return and it's not conditional.

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But I still find that if somebody ask

me a question will you do this for me?

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Or will you do this?

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My immediate answer is yes

before I even think it through.

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Oh yeah.

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It's like a reflex.

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Exactly.

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Exactly.

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And I know that all comes from trauma,

it comes from my childhood, you.

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And all that, but um, I'm I feel like.

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As the Lotus, I feel like I've grown

into someone beautiful and I've

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learned to I don't know if you had a

chance to see the movie inside out 2.

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I know it's a children's movie.

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Oh, I haven't watched it yet.

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He has been avoiding it because

I know it'll make me emotional.

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Yeah.

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I highly recommended for all the

listeners for you, everybody.

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I think it was great.

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But in particular, what I took from it

and this isn't spoiler, so don't worry.

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Okay.

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But what I took from it was the idea was

Riley is the protect and she's the girl.

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She's turned into a teenager and all

of a sudden she has new emotions, and

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Joy is the alpha.

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Person emotion, throughout her

childhood, but all of a sudden

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now anxiety wants to be the alpha.

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And I won't give any spoilers or anything,

but the idea of it is throughout the

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story what I took from it and what I

think, what it's trying to say is that

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you have to learn to love yourself.

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All the parts that come in with it.

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And all of the things that make

you, who you are, your core beliefs.

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Everything that has made you, even if

they're not pretty, even if they're

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things you're not proud of . You have

to learn to love yourself, all of that.

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And that's what makes you, and that's what

makes you lovable and makes you unique.

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That's what I took from the movie.

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You'll take from it.

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What you want.

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Yeah, I definitely do need to watch that.

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Then that sounds absolutely magical.

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It really is.

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A lot of people have said that, the

first inside out was really for kids.

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And the second one was really for adults.

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I don't know if that's true necessarily.

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But I will say that I appreciated it.

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At a very deep level.

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Wow.

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I wish these movies have

been around when I was a kid.

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Same, because I have a little

great niece and she suffers from

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anxiety and she's only four.

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She's going to be five soon, but she

suffers from anxiety and it's so

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wonderful that she has these movies to

watch , that let her know that anxiety

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is a just a real emotion that a lot of

people have many people, most people do.

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How much it rules your life

or dictate Tate's your life?

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Yeah.

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Really has to do with,

you're in control ultimately.

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And it's just it's magical.

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I didn't even know truly understand

what anxiety was until my mid thirties.

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When my sister went to therapy

and then was talking about it.

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And describing things.

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And I was like, oh, wait.

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That's what, because our

family called it dwelling

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I didn't realize that

anxiety was what I have.

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It was this aha moment

when I had that word.

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Clicked into place.

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And then I was better able to

navigate it and learn how to

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work with it and not fight it.

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And I didn't realize that not

everyone lived their life like that.

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I know.

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Are you serious?

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Sometimes I'll narrate

my the thought process.

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I've had moments where my dad

looks at me and I'm like, what?

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You don't think like that?

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And he's like, no.

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Now see for me, it's like I'm an island.

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I honestly thought that I was

the only one that felt like that.

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Um, Just like you, but at the

same time, I also am shocked to

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know how many other people do.

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Yes.

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I would just think cute about childhood.

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When you said that it's a wonderful

that your niece has this resource,

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and then I was thinking to myself,

everything that I watched as a

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child created the anxiety in me.

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She knows what a fear of

quicksand I had I know, and then

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the games we had perfection.

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That game where you had the timer.

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Pop operation.

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Oh, my goodness.

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Double dare and all the Nickelodeon

game shows with all this

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time under pressure and yeah.

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Oh, my goodness.

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Yeah.

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Even the Disney movie is ever so

much anxiety written stuff in it.

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I just think about, I don't know, for some

reason move faucet and scarf fighting.

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It's like in my Marine right now.

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Yeah.

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And all the afterschool specials

I lived in constant fear that

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I was going to get kidnapped.

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Oh, my gosh.

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I was so scared that my face is

going to be at a milk carton.

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I know.

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I hear you.

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And if you wonder where it came

from millennials and gen X-ers.

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There you go.

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There you go.

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There you go.

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I think the people pleasing really has.

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He carried me into my entire adult life.

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And it has really been a problem.

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So probably The biggest issue I

had I worked at a job for 30 years.

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Oh, wow.

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Amazing.

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It was a job that I did well and

I really enjoyed, but the people

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that I worked for made a really

toxic work environment for me.

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That's unfortunate.

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Yeah.

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They took advantage of my people pleasing.

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Um, They would constantly make me feel

like nothing I could do was right.

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Oh, I could never do anything

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enough.

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That's terrible.

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Yeah, but they would give me just

enough praise to keep me from leaving.

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It was toxic, it was like a

domestic violence relationship.

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Yeah, it sounds like emotional

manipulation for sure.

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I mean, They made me feel

like I couldn't leave.

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They just needed me too much.

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But I wasn't doing anything.

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It was just an emotional

roller coaster day in, day out.

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I would get enough nerve to stand up for

myself and my boss would say things like

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where do you think you're going to go?

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Nobody here.

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When you wow.

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And you'll never have it as

good as we give it to you.

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Oh, my gosh.

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It literally sounds like

an abusive relationship.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, it totally was.

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She would see these things.

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She honestly said those things.

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Wow.

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And I would believe her.

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Year after year, I would just

try so hard to please them.

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And I just craved that little bit

of praise that they would give me so

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few and far between, but every once

in a while, just when I would start

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to think that it wasn't worth it.

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They would come in with just

enough to make me not leave.

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Finally it started to affect my health.

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I was really anxious a lot.

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Particularly after COVID hit.

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I know a lot of people suffered

from anxiety after COVID.

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I was definitely one of those people.

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It really hit me hard.

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The anxiety.

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I had always suffered from anxiety

ever since I was a child, but it

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really when COVID hit it just bloomed.

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Understandable.

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Yeah.

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And I was just anxious a lot

and had all those physical

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ailments that anxiety gives you.

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Just that emotional rollercoaster

really made me anxious and really put

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my physical health kind of at risk.

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Would you mind sharing some of that

because if you're a person like me

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who didn't know you had anxiety, they

might not know the physical signs.

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Would you mind sharing?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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The physical ailments of,

headaches, stomach aches.

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I had terrible acid reflux.

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Oh yeah.

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But really bad, you know,

stomach aches where I would feel

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like I was going to be sick.

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Real bad headaches.

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Tiredness, I had even other

ailments on top of that.

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I put on weight.

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My joints hurt, my back hurt.

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I actually came down with

an auto immune disease.

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Oh God.

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I don't know that they were connected.

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But I don't know they weren't.

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Yeah.

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I came down with an

autoimmune thyroid disease.

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I'm so sorry.

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That's rough.

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Yeah, it just, my physical

health was at risk, I think.

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And really my breaking point

Came because of my health.

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It came shortly after COVID hit.

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my boss was trying to insist on me

doing something that I felt was unsafe.

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Oh, this makes me so enraged when I

hear stories like this and I told

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them no for the first time in almost

30 years, we told them no good for you.

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: 00:15:02

And they were honestly shocked

that I said, no, I bet they were.

351

: 00:15:05

And they didn't know what to do.

352

: 00:15:07

But they doubled down and

they just kept insisting.

353

: 00:15:10

I.

354

: 00:15:10

I had to do it.

355

: 00:15:11

I had to do it.

356

: 00:15:12

I offered compromises.

357

: 00:15:15

To what I thought was fair and explained

why I didn't think it was safe.

358

: 00:15:19

It wasn't safe, what

they want to be to do.

359

: 00:15:21

I offered compromises on

what I could do instead.

360

: 00:15:25

No, it had to be their way and it had

to be, so I finally just caved in.

361

: 00:15:29

I said, okay, all right, I'll do it.

362

: 00:15:32

As most people pleasers do, right?

363

: 00:15:33

Yes.

364

: 00:15:34

Yes.

365

: 00:15:35

Anyway that night I'm driving home and

I thought I was having a heart attack.

366

: 00:15:38

Oh, gosh.

367

: 00:15:40

It felt like an elephant

was sitting on my chest.

368

: 00:15:42

I had such a pain going through my chest.

369

: 00:15:44

I couldn't breathe.

370

: 00:15:45

I was so scared.

371

: 00:15:46

I went to the ER, oh, wow.

372

: 00:15:49

And uh, it was a panic attack.

373

: 00:15:52

Which of course was embarrassing,

but worse than that the

374

: 00:15:55

next day I went into work.

375

: 00:15:57

And I told them that I

had gone into the ER.

376

: 00:16:00

And they made fun of me.

377

: 00:16:02

Ugh.

378

: 00:16:02

Disgusting.

379

: 00:16:04

So that was it for me.

380

: 00:16:06

I gave him my notice.

381

: 00:16:07

I didn't have a job to go to.

382

: 00:16:08

Good for you.

383

: 00:16:09

Um, I gave them my notes.

384

: 00:16:10

Now I gave him a month's notice.

385

: 00:16:11

I'm still a people pleaser.

386

: 00:16:16

But I gave him notice you did.

387

: 00:16:17

Set your boundary and they kept, I don't

want to say they begged me to come back,

388

: 00:16:22

but they kept trying to sweeten the deal.

389

: 00:16:25

To get me to come back.

390

: 00:16:26

And now all of a sudden, the

compromises that I had asked for

391

: 00:16:29

they were okay with, oh, of course.

392

: 00:16:32

So they made it really hard to leave.

393

: 00:16:34

But I just, I knew I, my closest friend

he had a stroke Because of his job.

394

: 00:16:41

Oh God, the stress of his

job costume to have a stroke.

395

: 00:16:43

Actually that night that I was

at the ER , he said to me, Tracy.

396

: 00:16:48

Don't let a stroke make you

wake up like it did from.

397

: 00:16:51

He's don't wait for a

stroke until you leave.

398

: 00:16:53

He's leave before that happens.

399

: 00:16:55

I see it happening to you

like it happened to me.

400

: 00:16:57

Oh gosh.

401

: 00:16:58

And you're heading down that road.

402

: 00:17:00

, that was just all I needed.

403

: 00:17:01

I was like, Nope, I'm not doing it.

404

: 00:17:03

And I just dug my heels

in and just said no.

405

: 00:17:06

And I was scary now I had

fortunately saved money.

406

: 00:17:11

I had some money saved because really , it

had been really bad for about five years.

407

: 00:17:16

Oh, wow.

408

: 00:17:17

It wasn't just because ever

since COVID hit it got bad.

409

: 00:17:20

No.

410

: 00:17:21

It was like bad.

411

: 00:17:22

You know, incrementally worse and

worse every year, but for the five

412

: 00:17:26

years before I quit, it was really bad.

413

: 00:17:27

And so I started saving

every penny I had for you.

414

: 00:17:30

So on unconscious level or

subconscious level, you knew that's

415

: 00:17:33

exactly the ending of that time

416

: 00:17:35

there was coming in.

417

: 00:17:36

Exactly.

418

: 00:17:36

And I had saved enough basically

to live off my savings for a year.

419

: 00:17:40

Good.

420

: 00:17:41

Good for you.

421

: 00:17:41

That's amazing.

422

: 00:17:42

Yeah, so as I said it.

423

: 00:17:44

I would've left a long time before that,

had it not been my people pleasing.

424

: 00:17:47

I was so sure that I couldn't, I was

so broken, I just felt so unworthy,

425

: 00:17:52

so unlovable in all those dysfunctional

things that you tell yourself.

426

: 00:17:56

And I just thought, I'll never

have it as good as I have it here.

427

: 00:17:59

And yes, they're are abusive.

428

: 00:18:01

Yes, it's bad, but somebody else is

going to be just as bad if not worse.

429

: 00:18:05

Finally, I just I went back to

school- got my master's degree.

430

: 00:18:09

Congratulations.

431

: 00:18:10

Amazing.

432

: 00:18:11

Yeah.

433

: 00:18:11

Thank you.

434

: 00:18:12

And found my dream job and I

love it and they respect me.

435

: 00:18:16

They appreciate me.

436

: 00:18:18

And it's just it's just amazing.

437

: 00:18:20

And Just to bring it home.

438

: 00:18:21

The thing is that I learned so

many lessons in those 30 years.

439

: 00:18:24

That I'll never ever go back to.

440

: 00:18:26

I'll never start that pattern again.

441

: 00:18:28

I've really broken that pattern.

442

: 00:18:31

And I now know that I'm worthy.

443

: 00:18:33

I stand up for myself if I

ever need to, which is very

444

: 00:18:35

rare, thankfully at this job.

445

: 00:18:37

But I do when I do.

446

: 00:18:38

And they love it.

447

: 00:18:40

It's such a healthy environment.

448

: 00:18:42

Oh I guess my point is, if there's anybody

out there that is feeling like I was, know

449

: 00:18:48

that it does get better and it can get

better even if you think that it can't.

450

: 00:18:54

That's beautiful.

451

: 00:18:55

We use said that you're feeling

more worthy, which is amazing.

452

: 00:18:59

Healing is like an onion, so I'm

still working on worthiness just

453

: 00:19:02

when I think there's a new layer

of it that comes up to the surface

454

: 00:19:06

of me self-sabotaging or whatnot.

455

: 00:19:08

Yes.

456

: 00:19:08

So was it that moment of quitting

that brought you the worthiness or

457

: 00:19:12

did you do work afterwards or do you

think it was just the, it was both.

458

: 00:19:16

I I think quitting gave me.

459

: 00:19:20

The opened the door for me.

460

: 00:19:23

It gave me the.

461

: 00:19:25

Breath.

462

: 00:19:26

And.

463

: 00:19:27

Going back to school I

graduated with 4.0, by the way.

464

: 00:19:31

Congratulations.

465

: 00:19:32

That's amazing.

466

: 00:19:34

Myself on the back.

467

: 00:19:36

On the back.

468

: 00:19:36

I'm proud of that.

469

: 00:19:37

I just, I realized my worth.

470

: 00:19:39

Not that I didn't necessarily know it

before, but I absolutely believe it now.

471

: 00:19:44

And then I, I was so fortunate

to have money to live off of I

472

: 00:19:49

also have, my adult son lives

with me and he's a social worker.

473

: 00:19:52

And we would go on long walks together

and and I went through therapy.

474

: 00:19:57

Once a week I went to therapy.

475

: 00:19:59

So between all of that, between the weekly

therapy sessions that really dug deep.

476

: 00:20:05

The daily, long mini therapy

sessions, I should say.

477

: 00:20:09

We were there for each other.

478

: 00:20:09

We support each other.

479

: 00:20:10

Yeah.

480

: 00:20:11

But, it, it was great to have that.

481

: 00:20:13

And then just the relaxing.

482

: 00:20:15

I could just breathe and

enjoy myself and I healed.

483

: 00:20:18

I healed from that trauma.

484

: 00:20:20

And then I was in such a good place when

the perfect job just fell into my lap.

485

: 00:20:24

I really believe these things

all happen for a reason.

486

: 00:20:27

Yes.

487

: 00:20:27

And it just fell into my

lap at the very right time.

488

: 00:20:30

And the rest is history,

as they say, that's very

489

: 00:20:33

encouraging for others to hear.

490

: 00:20:36

To know what's on the other side of that.

491

: 00:20:39

No, what's on the other side of that.

492

: 00:20:41

Good bye.

493

: 00:20:43

Because I had similar feeling.

494

: 00:20:45

It's scary.

495

: 00:20:45

Like When I left my teaching career, I

wasn't that a pet of me I'm so burned out.

496

: 00:20:49

I was just over it all.

497

: 00:20:51

Yeah.

498

: 00:20:52

Big sigh of relief saying goodbye.

499

: 00:20:55

I mean, There's other feelings

involved too, but the relief,

500

: 00:20:57

but then also the, oh shit.

501

: 00:20:59

Now what.

502

: 00:21:00

I know.

503

: 00:21:00

There's excitement and

freedom in the ocean.

504

: 00:21:03

Now what?

505

: 00:21:03

So that's also, it's absolutely

scary and terrifying.

506

: 00:21:08

Yeah, but there is such a relief.

507

: 00:21:10

Yes.

508

: 00:21:11

All of a sudden you're in the wizard

of Oz and all of a sudden you see

509

: 00:21:13

the yellow brick road and you like,

you know where you need to go.

510

: 00:21:17

You see it ahead of

you, you can, you have.

511

: 00:21:19

Goal and objective and all this time you

were wandering around in the tornado.

512

: 00:21:23

Ooh, that's a great metaphor.

513

: 00:21:25

Yes.

514

: 00:21:25

Yes exactly.

515

: 00:21:26

Visual.

516

: 00:21:27

I think that way I love that.

517

: 00:21:29

Yes exactly.

518

: 00:21:30

And it gives you.

519

: 00:21:31

My friend calls itself evidence,

but you give yourself self evidence

520

: 00:21:35

of, oh, I can do hard things.

521

: 00:21:37

I can do this.

522

: 00:21:38

And then when you gave yourself a

huge example of putting yourself in

523

: 00:21:42

your wellbeing first, by taking that

leap and quitting your job, and then

524

: 00:21:46

I'm sure now, if you have that big

example smaller things are easier

525

: 00:21:51

to say no, because you're like.

526

: 00:21:53

Oh, I can say no to these assholes.

527

: 00:21:55

I know buddy you're a hundred percent.

528

: 00:21:57

Right.

529

: 00:21:57

And by the way as soon

as I started my new job.

530

: 00:22:02

I lost 35 pounds.

531

: 00:22:03

I am.

532

: 00:22:04

My health is better.

533

: 00:22:05

My anxiety is under control,

like so many things.

534

: 00:22:08

So I, that people pleasing component

of my, of myself was really.

535

: 00:22:15

I say it was affecting my health.

536

: 00:22:16

It truly was.

537

: 00:22:18

I think there's definitely a mind,

body correlation kind of thing.

538

: 00:22:23

And I, a hundred percent believe once

you're feeling healthy and you can

539

: 00:22:27

start saying no, so many other things

sorta get better to, oh my gosh.

540

: 00:22:32

I'm so glad you brought that up.

541

: 00:22:33

Exactly.

542

: 00:22:35

That your body is showing you

where you're holding energy and

543

: 00:22:39

where you are having resistance.

544

: 00:22:41

Emotionally is going

to play out physically.

545

: 00:22:42

Same thing with me.

546

: 00:22:44

Definitely like whenever I have high

anxiety or I know I'm restricting

547

: 00:22:48

myself, not using my voice.

548

: 00:22:50

I know I'll have all of a sudden

inflammation's back and now my

549

: 00:22:54

lower back hurts or this or that.

550

: 00:22:56

Now I've stopped looking at it

as I have inflammation instead of

551

: 00:22:59

putting that label, I'll look into.

552

: 00:23:01

Okay.

553

: 00:23:01

What are you holding on to Jenny?

554

: 00:23:03

What's going on?

555

: 00:23:04

Yeah, because this was

flaring up for a reason.

556

: 00:23:06

Yeah.

557

: 00:23:06

It does exactly the same thing with me.

558

: 00:23:08

Like I said, I have an auto immune and

so I do naturally get inflammation,

559

: 00:23:12

but there's always something.

560

: 00:23:14

Anxiety related or stress-related

that has triggered it.

561

: 00:23:18

Yes.

562

: 00:23:18

You're a hundred percent right.

563

: 00:23:19

And it's usually mental it's definitely.

564

: 00:23:22

Yeah, it's a physical ailment,

but it started in my head.

565

: 00:23:25

Yeah.

566

: 00:23:26

So do you have any habits or

techniques that you've used to

567

: 00:23:31

help strengthen that connection.

568

: 00:23:33

Yeah I definitely I'm a huge advocate

of meditation, but I have to say

569

: 00:23:38

for me personally, Getting out

in nature is what it does for me.

570

: 00:23:43

Especially.

571

: 00:23:44

I know we're in Western New York and

it's not, it's not always sunny and

572

: 00:23:47

certainly it's not always lovely weather.

573

: 00:23:50

There's no question about that, but

I take advantage when it is, and just

574

: 00:23:54

getting outside and taking a walk

and, Listening to music or talking

575

: 00:23:59

with my son or, whatever it is that

feeds my soul really helps ground me.

576

: 00:24:05

On a physical level, I'd have to say

when I get anxious I do a lot of Kind

577

: 00:24:11

of physical grounding techniques.

578

: 00:24:13

One thing.

579

: 00:24:13

I do a lot because my anxiety, I know

people feel anxiety different places.

580

: 00:24:17

But for me, if it comes in

my throat and my upper chest.

581

: 00:24:21

And so just tapping my neck.

582

: 00:24:23

Oh, okay.

583

: 00:24:24

Yeah.

584

: 00:24:24

Or holding the back of my neck and

I can feel my fingers and I just

585

: 00:24:27

concentrate on my hand, on my neck.

586

: 00:24:29

Oh, interesting.

587

: 00:24:30

And it just helps me breathe a little bit.

588

: 00:24:32

I don't know why, but that helps.

589

: 00:24:34

Taking off my shoes and

feeling my bare feet.

590

: 00:24:36

On the ground moving my

hands, just feeling my body

591

: 00:24:40

move and concentrating on that.

592

: 00:24:43

I'm so glad you shared that.

593

: 00:24:44

Thank you.

594

: 00:24:44

That makes sense.

595

: 00:24:45

Yeah.

596

: 00:24:46

Have you heard of Tapping meditation

I have, and I'd love to do it.

597

: 00:24:50

I haven't done it.

598

: 00:24:51

I think that would be

really helpful for me.

599

: 00:24:54

I think that'd be something I'd like.

600

: 00:24:55

There's this guy on YouTube as

a free channel, tons of guided

601

: 00:24:59

tapping meditations, Brad Yates.

602

: 00:25:01

I'll tag him in the show notes.

603

: 00:25:03

Okay.

604

: 00:25:04

Amazing.

605

: 00:25:05

He has a guided for all different things.

606

: 00:25:07

So anxiety, going back

to sleep, manifesting.

607

: 00:25:12

Anything.

608

: 00:25:12

Yeah.

609

: 00:25:13

It's really great.

610

: 00:25:14

I'll have to check it out.

611

: 00:25:15

Yeah.

612

: 00:25:15

Yeah.

613

: 00:25:15

I highly recommend this is a good

reminder to myself to get back into it.

614

: 00:25:19

Tappings one of those things are all

getting out of kick and I'll do it for

615

: 00:25:22

a few months and then something shifts.

616

: 00:25:24

But then again, you know, I also say,

I think sometimes things come in and

617

: 00:25:28

out of your experience for a reason.

618

: 00:25:29

I don't think maybe I

need to tap all the time.

619

: 00:25:32

I dunno.

620

: 00:25:33

But this might be a sign that

I need to given how I was

621

: 00:25:36

in an anxiety tornado today.

622

: 00:25:39

I look, amped myself up to

the point of what am I doing?

623

: 00:25:42

Yeah.

624

: 00:25:43

Yeah, I understand.

625

: 00:25:44

And the thing is I have some friends.

626

: 00:25:47

Older friends of mine from my.

627

: 00:25:50

Older days, I guess my extreme

people pleasing days, school, age.

628

: 00:25:55

That are tornadoes.

629

: 00:25:56

And whenever they're around me, they're

just, just tornado wing all around me and

630

: 00:26:00

it causes me so much anxiety just being

near them because they just, they love it.

631

: 00:26:06

They love being in the eye of the tornado

or whatever it is, the eye of the storm.

632

: 00:26:09

They love it.

633

: 00:26:09

That's just, and I hate it

and it causes me so much.

634

: 00:26:12

So yeah, I think, Tapping.

635

: 00:26:14

Any grounding, anything like that?

636

: 00:26:15

I think it would be real

helpful to me as well.

637

: 00:26:18

You bring up a good point though,

about who you surround yourself with.

638

: 00:26:21

That is so true.

639

: 00:26:23

And they are a part of your environment

as well, not just the physical place, but

640

: 00:26:27

the people you surround yourself with.

641

: 00:26:30

And I think that's something

to consider, to have.

642

: 00:26:32

I've talked about this

with other people have.

643

: 00:26:34

Almost like friendship breakups, but

the point of just because someone's

644

: 00:26:38

been around for a long time, doesn't

mean that they serve the highest good

645

: 00:26:41

of the current healed version of you.

646

: 00:26:43

Have you experienced that?

647

: 00:26:44

People pleasing and saying bye-bye.

648

: 00:26:47

A hundred percent, but I still have not

been able to bring myself to say, bye-bye.

649

: 00:26:50

I get it.

650

: 00:26:51

It's hard, but yeah, it,

you know, it is hard.

651

: 00:26:53

And especially when it's a friend

that you've had for, 30, 40 years,

652

: 00:26:56

it's really hard to say goodbye.

653

: 00:26:58

So I just try to set personal

boundaries for myself.

654

: 00:27:01

But it affects me.

655

: 00:27:02

There's no question about it.

656

: 00:27:02

Yeah.

657

: 00:27:03

Yeah, you're absolutely right in.

658

: 00:27:05

There's certainly, Maybe a time that

I'm going to have to say, but by,

659

: 00:27:07

and probably I've been working on

it in therapy, it's probably sooner.

660

: 00:27:12

But that's okay.

661

: 00:27:13

Baby steps.

662

: 00:27:14

When you heal, then you start

to see the world differently.

663

: 00:27:17

And then people who are in a, I

just say, they're in a different

664

: 00:27:20

place on their journey and they

might not be where you are.

665

: 00:27:23

They tend to stand out like a sore thumb.

666

: 00:27:25

And there's been people who I look

I'm like, how are you my good friend?

667

: 00:27:29

What?

668

: 00:27:29

But that was past version of me.

669

: 00:27:31

Yeah.

670

: 00:27:32

I hear ya.

671

: 00:27:33

Yeah.

672

: 00:27:34

Absolutely.

673

: 00:27:34

I hear you.

674

: 00:27:35

You.

675

: 00:27:35

Yeah, there are definitely people

in my life who I have from my past

676

: 00:27:39

that I still want in my present.

677

: 00:27:41

No question, obviously.

678

: 00:27:44

But there definitely are a couple

of that are energy vampires.

679

: 00:27:48

Glad you brought that up.

680

: 00:27:49

Just drain the ever

loving whatever out of me.

681

: 00:27:55

Yeah.

682

: 00:27:55

Yeah.

683

: 00:27:56

For those of you, who've

never heard that term.

684

: 00:27:57

It, They just zap you, how

do you know you're around?

685

: 00:28:01

What are your indicators

for energy vampire?

686

: 00:28:04

When I am done talking to

them or when it, when there.

687

: 00:28:09

When I when my relationship

or whey encounter, I should

688

: 00:28:12

say is done, I'm feeling.

689

: 00:28:15

I really just need to hibernate.

690

: 00:28:17

I'm like, Yeah.

691

: 00:28:19

Yes, I can.

692

: 00:28:20

I'm nodding my head.

693

: 00:28:21

Yes.

694

: 00:28:22

Yes.

695

: 00:28:22

Like I have people in my life

that bring me so much joy.

696

: 00:28:26

When I'm done with an encounter with them.

697

: 00:28:28

I'm smiling and I'm happy.

698

: 00:28:31

I've laughed a lot and then

there's other people that I am just.

699

: 00:28:37

Yeah, I feel like I'm slowly sinking

to the bottom of the ocean because

700

: 00:28:41

you've sucked the life out of me.

701

: 00:28:43

Yeah, exactly.

702

: 00:28:44

A hundred percent.

703

: 00:28:45

For me, it's I don't feel

like my authentic self.

704

: 00:28:49

I don't feel true to myself.

705

: 00:28:52

When I'm with them.

706

: 00:28:53

And I think that's an indicator as well.

707

: 00:28:56

That's a great point.

708

: 00:28:56

Because yeah I'll notice that myself.

709

: 00:28:58

It's almost like an alternate

personality comes into play.

710

: 00:29:03

Another thing that I've noticed too, when

I'm around someone like that, is that

711

: 00:29:07

they command control the conversation.

712

: 00:29:09

A lot of the times they want to talk

about, or usually complain about what they

713

: 00:29:13

want to complain about a hundred percent.

714

: 00:29:15

Now that I've noticed this about a few

people that I can think of off the top

715

: 00:29:18

of my head, that I will not name names

of, I will purposely just try to redirect

716

: 00:29:23

it and bring something up about myself,

just as a little experiment to see, and

717

: 00:29:27

then they always turn it back around.

718

: 00:29:29

Yeah, always.

719

: 00:29:30

so another reason I know that's them is

that I start to get really resentful.

720

: 00:29:35

I definitely have some of those people

in my life and the, and it's I sit

721

: 00:29:39

there and I listen, I'm a sounding board.

722

: 00:29:40

And they go on and on.

723

: 00:29:41

And then I'm like, oh, and I'm fine.

724

: 00:29:43

By the way, I.

725

: 00:29:43

Yeah.

726

: 00:29:45

I'll throw some of those kinds of things.

727

: 00:29:47

They don't get it.

728

: 00:29:48

They don't get it right over their

head, but a curve ball, you can throw

729

: 00:29:51

to an energy vampire like that is.

730

: 00:29:53

Tell me something great.

731

: 00:29:54

That's going on in your life?

732

: 00:29:56

And then the.

733

: 00:29:58

W what they won't know what to say.

734

: 00:30:00

And that's when I will

say something positive.

735

: 00:30:02

And then usually that will repel.

736

: 00:30:05

I don't know.

737

: 00:30:05

That's next tier people pleaser healing

is too set boundaries then weed out

738

: 00:30:11

the energy vampires, the people who

aren't serving your highest good.

739

: 00:30:14

Yeah, absolutely.

740

: 00:30:15

On my journey, I think I am

setting the boundaries, but

741

: 00:30:19

haven't quite weeded them out yet.

742

: 00:30:21

So going back to your timeline, you

had 30 years at this job, you take your

743

: 00:30:25

leap of faith in yourself and you quit.

744

: 00:30:28

Amazing.

745

: 00:30:29

And then you said you went

back and got your master's.

746

: 00:30:31

I'm sure that during this time you said

you were healing, so did people pleasing

747

: 00:30:36

rear its ugly head during college?

748

: 00:30:39

It absolutely did.

749

: 00:30:40

So my advisor was just one of those

people who could not be pleased.

750

: 00:30:43

They just couldn't be happy.

751

: 00:30:45

And I tried so desperately to please

her, I just wanted to please her.

752

: 00:30:51

Anyway, there was a point in time,

it was about halfway through My

753

: 00:30:55

degree during my S my schooling.

754

: 00:30:57

She got very disappointed

in something I did.

755

: 00:31:01

Now.

756

: 00:31:02

It was a complete misunderstanding.

757

: 00:31:05

She thought that I had done

something that I didn't do.

758

: 00:31:09

I'm basically in a bottom line.

759

: 00:31:10

But my people pleasing

kicked into hyper overdrive.

760

: 00:31:15

And I was so upset that

she was disappointed in me.

761

: 00:31:19

I almost quit.

762

: 00:31:20

Oh, no.

763

: 00:31:21

I was really close to quick.

764

: 00:31:22

Oh my gosh.

765

: 00:31:23

And it wasn't, it really

took about a week of.

766

: 00:31:28

Daily walks and talks with my

son and really thinking and

767

: 00:31:33

working on Why was I so upset?

768

: 00:31:35

And it came down to, I was upset

because I had displeased her.

769

: 00:31:40

And.

770

: 00:31:41

I realized that is the lesson that

I had taken from before, was that.

771

: 00:31:46

It's not about her.

772

: 00:31:48

It's about me.

773

: 00:31:48

And it's about me getting my

degree and me bettering myself.

774

: 00:31:52

And so whatever she

thinks I did or didn't do.

775

: 00:31:56

Which, as I said, wasn't even true,

but whatever it is that she thinks

776

: 00:32:01

is not reason for me to quit school,

but I just immediately was so upset.

777

: 00:32:05

It was soul crushing that

I had disappointed her.

778

: 00:32:08

And all I wanted to do was just hide.

779

: 00:32:11

I wanted to hibernate.

780

: 00:32:12

I wanted to hide.

781

: 00:32:12

I wanted to quit.

782

: 00:32:14

wasn't worthy.

783

: 00:32:15

I shouldn't keep going.

784

: 00:32:17

It's never, you're never healed.

785

: 00:32:20

You're always just recovering.

786

: 00:32:22

You are, You are.

787

: 00:32:23

But the good news is I didn't quit.

788

: 00:32:25

Yay.

789

: 00:32:26

Yes.

790

: 00:32:26

You know, am better than I was.

791

: 00:32:28

I think.

792

: 00:32:29

Probably five years ago, I might've quit.

793

: 00:32:31

Yeah, I can understand that.

794

: 00:32:34

The fact sometimes we have to go through

those to prove to ourselves and grow

795

: 00:32:38

and heal people want to escape the

pain or the tension that comes with.

796

: 00:32:43

Sometimes we have to go

through those instances.

797

: 00:32:45

Those conflicts, those moments where

you have to stand up for yourself

798

: 00:32:50

To heal or grow, you can't heal

that in isolation or in therapy.

799

: 00:32:53

People have a fight or flight reaction to

conflict and mine is definitely flight.

800

: 00:32:59

I just want to escape.

801

: 00:33:00

Oh, understandable.

802

: 00:33:01

Yeah.

803

: 00:33:02

So for me, it's I just want to hide

when something is scary or going on.

804

: 00:33:07

I just want to hide.

805

: 00:33:08

But being able to observe that in

yourself, it's huge because I know

806

: 00:33:10

a lot of, I want to think in my

younger years, I didn't know what

807

: 00:33:14

any of this was, people pleasing.

808

: 00:33:15

I thought that's how I was.

809

: 00:33:16

I thought I was who I was.

810

: 00:33:18

So just awareness the fact that whoever

you are listening right now, the fact

811

: 00:33:22

that you're listening to this is huge.

812

: 00:33:25

And this is called recovery

right here, listening to this,

813

: 00:33:27

the fact that you hit play.

814

: 00:33:29

And have any curiosity

about this whatsoever.

815

: 00:33:31

Should be assigned to you.

816

: 00:33:33

That you're on the right

path and you're not alone.

817

: 00:33:36

I love the yes, exactly.

818

: 00:33:38

Do you have any resources that

you've used books, speakers, podcasts,

819

: 00:33:43

anything that has helped you?

820

: 00:33:44

Yes.

821

: 00:33:45

I actually have two books.

822

: 00:33:47

I'm an avid reader.

823

: 00:33:49

I love to read.

824

: 00:33:50

And there are two books that

I read while I was recovering.

825

: 00:33:54

In my time off, I read a plethora of

books, but two in particular were very

826

: 00:33:59

good, particularly about people pleasing.

827

: 00:34:01

The first one is how to stop

breaking your own heart.

828

: 00:34:04

Megan Roxanne is the author.

829

: 00:34:06

Okay.

830

: 00:34:08

That was really, I think that was probably

one of my favorite ones, because it

831

: 00:34:11

reads in a very conversational way.

832

: 00:34:13

And she just talks about

her own experiences.

833

: 00:34:17

She's talked to a lot of people.

834

: 00:34:20

And a lot of people pleasers and

come up with her own lessons.

835

: 00:34:26

Real lessons about how to overcome

negative thought patterns.

836

: 00:34:31

And break free from

expectations and have self-love.

837

: 00:34:35

So I really recommend that one.

838

: 00:34:36

I thought that one was great.

839

: 00:34:37

And then the other one I really

liked was called not nice.

840

: 00:34:41

Oh, and I'm probably gonna

butcher his name, but it's Dr.

841

: 00:34:44

Aziz.

842

: 00:34:45

Good gossip, Pearl, I think.

843

: 00:34:48

Okay.

844

: 00:34:48

I'll link both of these in

the show notes, everyone.

845

: 00:34:50

Yeah.

846

: 00:34:50

And basically That is on, you

know how to say no without guilt.

847

: 00:34:55

Oh, and it's actually he's very

Funny and makes fun of people that

848

: 00:35:01

are too nice, but not in a mean way.

849

: 00:35:03

It's in a self-deprecating way,

but also shines a light on your

850

: 00:35:07

behavior, and it really made me see

things in a different way , which

851

: 00:35:11

brings me to my bumper sticker.

852

: 00:35:13

Yeah, let's dive in.

853

: 00:35:15

Those of you who haven't listened

before, I always ask my guests what

854

: 00:35:18

piece of people pleaser advice,

would you put on a bumper sticker?

855

: 00:35:20

That's what she's talking about.

856

: 00:35:21

I can't wait to hear.

857

: 00:35:23

So I saw this a few months ago

and it really resonated with me.

858

: 00:35:26

And that is.

859

: 00:35:27

You can still be a kind

person and say, no.

860

: 00:35:31

Ah, You can still be a good person and

set healthy personal boundaries for food.

861

: 00:35:36

That's good.

862

: 00:35:36

And that is something really over

the last few months, I have just

863

: 00:35:40

been saying to myself over and over

again and reminding myself that.

864

: 00:35:44

One does not equal the other.

865

: 00:35:46

You can still be a kind person.

866

: 00:35:49

And say no.

867

: 00:35:50

Oh, that's powerful.

868

: 00:35:52

But getting yourself to believe it.

869

: 00:35:53

That's the healing part, right?

870

: 00:35:54

Amen.

871

: 00:35:58

oh, I'm so wise.

872

: 00:36:00

Believe me.

873

: 00:36:00

I just have this all figured out.

874

: 00:36:04

No.

875

: 00:36:05

Oh, gosh.

876

: 00:36:06

That's so funny.

877

: 00:36:07

I've never heard of those books,

so I'll have to check them out.

878

: 00:36:09

I highly recommend them.

879

: 00:36:10

The great, awesome.

880

: 00:36:11

I'm on Amazon.

881

: 00:36:12

I noticed I think

audible had them as well.

882

: 00:36:15

Oh, cool.

883

: 00:36:15

I wonder,

884

: 00:36:15

I use the Libby app, the library.

885

: 00:36:17

I have to see if it's on there.

886

: 00:36:19

Yeah, they might be.

887

: 00:36:19

I love anything.

888

: 00:36:20

That's free.

889

: 00:36:21

I'm a huge advocate for free.

890

: 00:36:23

So Libby is is great as well.

891

: 00:36:24

Oh my gosh.

892

: 00:36:25

Thank you so much for sharing that.

893

: 00:36:27

So people who are starting their healing

journey, and that seems very daunting and

894

: 00:36:32

it seems overwhelming to even say no to

maybe even simple dinner plans, let alone

895

: 00:36:37

saying no to a boss or quitting a job.

896

: 00:36:39

What do you recommend they do first?

897

: 00:36:42

I think for me personally what really

helped me and what hopefully would help

898

: 00:36:48

others as well is to really take some

time and really think about your, why.

899

: 00:36:55

,why do I need this?

900

: 00:36:56

Why?

901

: 00:36:57

And if it comes down to, I need this for.

902

: 00:37:01

My mental health, my physical

health, my whatever or, Hey,

903

: 00:37:05

maybe it's just, I don't want.

904

: 00:37:07

That's okay too.

905

: 00:37:08

But whatever your, why is - give that

importance and value and realize that is

906

: 00:37:14

just as important, if not more important.

907

: 00:37:17

Then what the person is asking you needs

from you that, you just have to really

908

: 00:37:24

think about your own self.

909

: 00:37:27

When you say, why do you mean your

overarching why of why you want to heal?

910

: 00:37:31

And or guests and your why in that moment?

911

: 00:37:35

Y you want to say no.

912

: 00:37:36

I'd say both.

913

: 00:37:37

That's really a good point.

914

: 00:37:38

I was thinking the overarching, why.

915

: 00:37:40

But the small, why is important too.

916

: 00:37:43

I was saying, even if

it's just on a one-off.

917

: 00:37:44

Even if it's a small Y for me, I had

to because , it's not instinctual

918

: 00:37:49

for me to sit and think about myself.

919

: 00:37:52

And to think about what

I need and what I want.

920

: 00:37:56

And why that's important.

921

: 00:37:58

It's always what other people need and

what they want and why that's important

922

: 00:38:02

and what I need and what I want is just

as important, if not more so important

923

: 00:38:06

to me, you have to think about that.

924

: 00:38:08

I think and that's important, at

least for me, it was important.

925

: 00:38:11

I had to consciously think , because

that wasn't something I was going

926

: 00:38:14

to actually ever think about.

927

: 00:38:16

I can make myself think about that.

928

: 00:38:18

Understandable.

929

: 00:38:19

Yeah.

930

: 00:38:19

I think that's people pleasing programming

one-on-one is that you have de-centered

931

: 00:38:24

yourself where you were taught to, or.

932

: 00:38:27

That was the form of.

933

: 00:38:29

Karen loved that was that

identity was formed in your life.

934

: 00:38:32

I can relate to that too.

935

: 00:38:34

For me, I use the phrase taking up space.

936

: 00:38:37

It's okay for me to take up space.

937

: 00:38:40

Yes.

938

: 00:38:40

I think.

939

: 00:38:41

As women and particularly

people pleasers, but as women.

940

: 00:38:46

Just in general, we're

taught not to take up space.

941

: 00:38:48

Exactly.

942

: 00:38:48

We're taught to be quiet.

943

: 00:38:50

We're taught to be small.

944

: 00:38:51

An unnoticed.

945

: 00:38:52

And yeah.

946

: 00:38:53

It's okay.

947

: 00:38:54

To be powerful, to be

yourself, to be strong.

948

: 00:38:56

Yes.

949

: 00:38:58

What has blown my mind that has been so

amazing is all of these recovering people

950

: 00:39:02

pleasers such as yourself openly following

up with me to be on this podcast.

951

: 00:39:09

That is huge.

952

: 00:39:11

Talk about taking up space, getting on

a microphone and telling your story.

953

: 00:39:15

It's fricking amazing.

954

: 00:39:16

Yeah.

955

: 00:39:17

I just hope that, I listened to a lot of

podcasts as well and it really helped

956

: 00:39:22

me find, finding podcasts of people

of like-mind, yes of like experience.

957

: 00:39:28

Not that she should live in a

bubble of all people like-minded, or

958

: 00:39:31

whatever, but yeah, for me, It was

comforting to know I wasn't alone.

959

: 00:39:34

And so I'm hoping that, maybe this is

going to offer that for other people as.

960

: 00:39:37

Oh, I'm sure it will.

961

: 00:39:39

It's been a wonderful experience hearing

you share your story in I'm sure.

962

: 00:39:43

There's someone out there

who's going to hear it.

963

: 00:39:45

And it's not you know what,

I'm going to quit my job.

964

: 00:39:48

I freaking love it.

965

: 00:39:49

Amazing.

966

: 00:39:50

You have my blessing.

967

: 00:39:53

to do it.

968

: 00:39:56

That's amazing.

969

: 00:39:57

Oh my gosh.

970

: 00:39:58

Thank you so much for being here, Tracy.

971

: 00:40:00

Oh thank you.

972

: 00:40:00

Thank you for having me.

973

: 00:40:01

Yeah.

974

: 00:40:01

Yeah, it was wonderful.