Ep 13: Part 2:: Workplace Stress, Burnout, and People Pleasing: An Educator's Point of View with Meredith Ritchie

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You're listening to part

two with Meredith Ritchie.

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If you missed part one, make

sure to go back and listen to

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the previous conversation we had.

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This section is all about people

pleasing in the workplace,

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specifically as educators.

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We're going to dive into how people

pleasing incorporated itself into our

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daily life as educators, and how it

actually led to burnout, and so much more.

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Even if you're not an educator, I highly

recommend that you listen, because many

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of the issues that we encountered apply to

all different types of jobs and careers.

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Speaker: Switching gears to education.

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Meredith: Oh, yes.

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Speaker: We're talking about education

now, but really the dynamics that

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exist in our previous careers really

apply to multiple job situations.

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So even if you are not an educator, I

encourage you to listen to this section

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because it really relates across the

board, unfortunately, to many careers.

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Meredith: Absolutely.

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Many in the corporate world will feel

very similar stresses and pressures.

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For sure.

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I would say also medical.

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Yes.

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Speaker: Nurses.

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Meredith: Yes.

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There is a real push in any

service- focused job where The

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expectation is martyring yourself.

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Speaker: Yes.

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So as we dive into our careers, maybe

you'll see a little bit of yourself in us.

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Meredith and I worked

together at a school.

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I was an English teacher, and she

was the media specialist, librarian,

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for those of you who haven't

been in schools in a long time.

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It's a different role now because you

deal with technology, computers, oh my.

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It's not just books and research.

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Although

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Meredith: now, even with the

books, you're facing book bans.

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Oh

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Speaker: yeah,

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Meredith: yeah.

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We're going back to this, the fifties.

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It's

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Speaker: great.

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Censorship.

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It's wonderful.

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So yeah, we did a lot together in school.

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I was actually reflecting about this

before the podcast because I actually

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wrote about this the other day.

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About being a teacher and how I made

it all the way to district teacher

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of the year because I'm such a

good people pleaser because people

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would say, Oh, Jenny's good at that.

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Let's have her do this other thing.

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Let's have her lead this committee.

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And I would say that I

know you well enough.

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I would dare to guess that you might

have a similar experience because a

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lot of the times we would be assigned

to do the same things together.

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Student morale is low?

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Why don't you guys set up something

to get the kids interacting?

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Sure, we will host student

karaoke in the quad.

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On our planning period.

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Don't worry, don't mind me.

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Let's just set up equipment.

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Now, granted, that was fun.

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Agreed.

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But, in retrospect, there's some people

who are just sitting on their asses,

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not doing anything, and then, I And

you, I'm sure, as well, are not able

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or didn't feel comfortable saying no.

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Meredith: I think with education,

because it's for the kids, I would

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never want to do something that

would hurt a kid in in any way.

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Education's so tricky, in some ways,

and we worked in a smaller school, so

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everyone also did a little bit more,

the shared responsibilities were a

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little bit different, because we just

had a little bit of a smaller staff

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but some of the things That we took

on, like we took on the talent show.

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I was going to bring up the talent show.

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I love the talent show.

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Like I still hear songs that certain

kids sing and I still think of them and

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they were so cute and sweet on stage.

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There are definitely like a

handful that I'm like, Oh yeah.

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I remember this person overcoming their

fear and singing and how great was that?

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It's a great experience.

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But also , what do we

know about talent shows?

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And it took a decent

amount of time and stress.

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It wouldn't have been something

that I just think of and think,

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Oh, I would enjoy doing this.

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Speaker: Yes.

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Meredith: Even though I

did get joy out of it.

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It was.

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Hey, we need someone to do this.

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And so we'd be like, I

guess made the best of it.

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And again, got some fun memories out of

it, but what I've chosen to just do it.

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Speaker: I don't

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Meredith: know.

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Speaker: I don't know

if I would have either.

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I don't even know if I could ever

even answer that question because my

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whole career and all of education,

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I will stand on this hill that all

of education is based on people

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pleasing because if you do not

give all of your life force energy,

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then you are a terrible person.

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You don't care about your students.

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How dare you put your needs first.

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You

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Meredith: could have saved,

you could have saved them.

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That one student that no one else

thought of, but then you didn't.

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And so they went a horrible life

path when in reality, there's so many

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different variables at play and can

a teacher affect positively student?

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Absolutely.

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But I do think for the teachers,

there has to be some understanding

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of you are not going to change

every kid's life and that's okay.

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Speaker: Yes.

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I would say a lot of schools.

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I know I'm generalizing here.

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Most schools have some level

of a fear culture where if you

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were to buck the system and say

no, Meaning, not people please.

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Shit would hit the fan.

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Yes.

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Or the other way, there's those

one or two people who, oh, they're

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known for it, they just never help

and then they get away with it.

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Do you want to talk about

people pleaser resentment?

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Oh, my goodness.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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What gives them the right to be

the curmudgeon-y person and then

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they get out of staying till 8 p.

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m cleaning up the

cafeteria after an event?

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Meredith: Yes.

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Yeah.

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When I reflect on, so I

left education a year ago.

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It was strange.

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Obviously we can both talk on this.

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It is weird leaving education.

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I think people who go into education

think it's going to be their whole lives.

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And for a minute it is, and that's

awesome, but it's not your whole life.

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They will hire someone else.

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I felt like a failure just because of

leaving, just because I left this job that

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should have been a lifelong passion, a

career that I stay in for 30 plus years,

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just because I have a love for students.

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So leaving was uncomfortable to say the

least, but now that I have a job that I

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like, Two important things to consider.

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I left and I'm good.

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I could never go back and I would be okay.

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I think it was the same lesson I

needed to learn like about my partner.

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I thought leaving education,

I would one, never get another

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job like I would just ever.

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And it was hard.

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It was several months and

that was so very challenging.

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And I thought that I was a disappointment

because you're supposed to stay in career

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positions in general, but I don't think

in this world that you should, I don't

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think it's a healthy thing to believe.

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I think that just leads to more

people staying in jobs and being very

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unhappy and having worse consequences.

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Again, having experienced that,

I'm happy to have gone through

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that, to know I can do it.

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If I wanted to leave my current job,

which I love, I could get another job.

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Speaker: Exactly.

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I can relate with

everything you're saying.

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Actually I still have being honest here.

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I still have nightmares sometimes

that take place in the classroom.

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must be my subconscious mind processing

things, but a lot of the things that

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come up have to do with me abandoning

myself, me feeling like I had no power.

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Yes.

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Feeling

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Speaker: like I could not.

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Voice my opinion to either administration

or with parents, because there was

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a lot of fear involved with basically

undercutting a teacher's voice and power.

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I don't even like the word power.

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Undercutting their expertise.

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Meredith: Yeah, I think

that's a good term.

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Speaker: I had another guest on

the other day who's a therapist,

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and , she calls it self silencing.

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They forced that on teachers to be quiet,

take one for the team whether it is an

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interaction that was disrespectful or

not with a student, even a co worker or a

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parent , the culture is to self silence.

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Meredith: Oh, absolutely.

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I want to delve deeper into that.

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And to some slightly more details, so my

last year in education was challenging

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in that understaffing hit my school.

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I think my district probably

as a whole, pretty bad.

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But specifically, I ended up having

to do two other people's jobs.

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Therefore couldn't really

do my job as librarian.

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My partner would just keep saying

you're making it Work too well,

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so I don't have someone managing

the technology but I also didn't

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want the kids to have to pay.

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Speaker: Yes.

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See, it's the carrot they dangle.

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Meredith: Absolutely.

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There's part of me that - I don't

know if I would do it different.

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Cause , I couldn't have a kid

come and ask me a question

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and me say that's not my job.

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I'm going to try to answer the question.

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And I agree.

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I was not enough of a squeaky wheel,

but I just felt like this needs

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to get done and there's no one else

who's going to do it, so I will

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do it because it has to get done.

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And it was horrible.

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And I was miserable.

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And I just kept saying things like,

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"hey, we're just surviving this year.

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We're just getting through this year.

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This is super hard".

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I was hurt.

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And I think things did run smoothly

enough at the end of the year, I was

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fully burnt out and left education

and may return or may never return.

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But I think it all just comes

down to the expectation is

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that this has to get done.

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No one else is doing it.

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I will just do it.

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Not to my benefit, to my

destruction in some sense.

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Speaker: Yeah.

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Because if you went to anyone,

which most people wouldn't, they

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just do what you did in education.

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But I feel like this also

translates to many jobs as well.

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Especially I had the similar experiences

in corporate America, but with teaching,

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typically, you don't go to your boss,

you don't go to your principal and

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usually you do if you get pushed to

a limit, but that's frowned upon.

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You take care of it.

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You take care of it at your grade level.

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You take care of it at your department,

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we don't want to hear that you're

uncomfortable, so then you just

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internalize it and the resentment builds.

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Yes.

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There has to be a way for education

expectations to shift a little bit.

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Meredith: Yes.

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Speaker: To ease up on that.

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I don't think education

has to be that way.

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You do not have to be placed in

the position where you're basically

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having to be the martyr and sacrifice

your well being for your students.

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And if not, you are seen

as a slacker or less than.

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Meredith: Yes, cause Even as I was

doing this tremendously challenging

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year and I was still, again,

maintaining things, I still had this

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very deep, I'm failing as a librarian.

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Oh,

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Meredith: yeah.

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Because I, I wanted to

be a good librarian.

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I essentially couldn't really have classes

come in and I wanted to have lessons for

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them and I wanted to have fun ways to

engage and I would get creative ideas.

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I actually had an idea

of a mindful Monday.

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During lunches do a five

minute mindfulness thing.

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I would have these ideas, But then I

would have that guilt of I can't do that.

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It should be happening.

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It should be happening.

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It should exist.

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And I would love to be able

to be the one to do it.

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It was a frustrating balancing act of

Not only did I have all this stress

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of these two jobs that like weren't

my jobs, I also had the stress of

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i'm failing at my job Even though

understand I'm doing two different.

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Yeah,

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Speaker: exactly.

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It's not your fault, but the

culture directs the fault on you,

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even though it's not you're doing.

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Yes.

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Oh, goodness.

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So then you suffer in silence,

basically . You try to say things here

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and there, but turned to blind eye.

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I want to touch on the flip side of

usually when your give a damn is busted

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and sometimes some of us have gotten

to the point where we're like, listen,

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we need to sit down and people pleaser

way is like Let me word vomit my anger

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on, you that's not good either, but

what I'm thinking of is this time.

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It was during COVID and I used my district

teacher of the year position to call out

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not the best procedures and the way they

were handling COVID strategy preparation

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and management in the classroom.

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And things were not being heard

or listened, so I was working

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with the local newspaper reporter.

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It got to that level.

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So Yeah.

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Doing interviews, giving inside scoops

and people are emailing me fearing

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that I asking if I lost my job, if

I was losing my job because how dare

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I break that people pleaser mode

falling in line, marching orders,

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but you know what the worst part was?

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I never heard a word.

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Meredith: Oh, I believe it.

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Speaker: I think that hurt more.

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I'd rather gotten called in and yelled

at because that actually means you gave

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a shit about what the teachers were

saying because I was speaking on behalf.

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Meredith: But it

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Speaker: didn't matter.

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So I can see why people fell in line.

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I also had that instance too.

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As district teacher of the year, this was

a state level thing, so I sent out this

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survey to every teacher, I didn't know I

couldn't, and then I remember two people

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came in from the district office, and I

always joke it was like stormtroopers

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from Star Wars like I'm going marching to

my death, like Darth Vader is in there.

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Everyone looked at me as I got

called in to go meet with these

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representatives from the district

and they're all like, are you okay?

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Are you okay?

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And my principal is I'm sorry, they

won't let me in there with you.

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It was so funny when I went in

there at that point, I think my

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give a damn was definitely busted.

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I cut them off at the pass because I knew

why they were there, I spoke my truth very

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calmly, respectfully and then by the end

of the meeting, I had them understanding

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our perspective, our end of things, and

I had them actually apologize to me.

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So that was a little bit of a victory.

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Absolutely.

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But I will say when I talked about

it later on numerous things along

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the way having to do with this

topic of standing up to the district

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folks or presenting stuff, not

many people fell in line behind me.

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Most people are willing for me to be

the one, the voice, and I remember

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getting so resentful and now I

understand it in a deeper way that

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it's that people pleasing culture.

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It's not their fault.

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It's so ingrained in education

that I was the odd man out.

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They're like, Oh, dang, you're

like taking one for the team.

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Literally.

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Did you get fired?

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Everyone was wondering if I got fired.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Fear culture.

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Meredith: Yes.

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Oh yeah.

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My last year in school librarianship.

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And I, did like an interview or two

and spoke at a board meeting or two.

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Speaker: On the local news.

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Meredith: Yeah.

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I mean, I was frustrated in general

with things but it was so strange.

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So there were a lot of librarians

who came up to me and they

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were afraid that I would

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lose my job.

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And yeah, to be fair, I was

Struggling at school years.

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I was like, okay whatever

I'm over it anyways.

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Yeah, exactly.

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But it was really strange that they

had that reaction that there is that

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reaction Yeah, because as educators, our

people pleasing push is I support the

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district, I support the school board,

I support admin, like we're a team.

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Yes.

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We are all on the same page, so

showing any division is frowned upon.

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But as a librarian, it is literally

my job to fight book bans.

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It was a super strange conflict

of interest because I understood

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people didn't want to lose their

jobs and I don't know if they would

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have, I don't know if I would have.

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Part of me feels like

education is so understaffed.

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They can't afford to fire people for

things that are basically their jobs.

328

: 00:15:37

But I understand that people don't

want to lose their jobs but also

329

: 00:15:40

I was like, this is literally,

this is one of the things we do.

330

: 00:15:43

This is what we do historically.

331

: 00:15:45

For decades, librarians have

been fighting that kind of book

332

: 00:15:48

banning and suppression of ideas.

333

: 00:15:51

School librarians should be

fighting for safe spaces and

334

: 00:15:55

really diverse school collections.

335

: 00:15:56

This is our job.

336

: 00:15:58

Yeah, it was a strange I felt like

I was so very much A librarian

337

: 00:16:04

when I did it, which was lovely.

338

: 00:16:06

And I liked that feeling.

339

: 00:16:07

But at the same time, it was really

pushing against as an educator,

340

: 00:16:13

what is expected of us for

341

: 00:16:14

Speaker: sure.

342

: 00:16:15

Oh, spot on.

343

: 00:16:17

It makes sense why we're friends, I think

it's very interesting that we are both

344

: 00:16:21

recovering people pleasers, but we both,

Also, have that rebel side where we will

345

: 00:16:26

speak up and connect to the media and,

346

: 00:16:28

Meredith: we're such a paradox.

347

: 00:16:30

And I don't know if it's just

we get pushed to a point.

348

: 00:16:32

I think so.

349

: 00:16:33

I'm like, you know what, I will people

please, I will, we will literally

350

: 00:16:37

bend over backwards for this job.

351

: 00:16:40

But you're asking us to take books off

shelves or put kids in danger, like.

352

: 00:16:44

there has to be a line.

353

: 00:16:46

Yes, exactly.

354

: 00:16:49

It brings in such good hearted people.

355

: 00:16:52

It really does.

356

: 00:16:53

Always so hard.

357

: 00:16:55

Now that I'm older and have gone through

this, I was just talking to someone

358

: 00:16:58

who just finished her master's degree

and will have for the first year a

359

: 00:17:03

kindergarten or first grade class.

360

: 00:17:06

She's so lovely and I like her.

361

: 00:17:08

She was talking the other day.

362

: 00:17:10

She's so cute.

363

: 00:17:10

She's working two jobs.

364

: 00:17:12

Cause she was like, , I'm saving up money

to get my first big girl apartment.

365

: 00:17:15

So I ended up telling her, cause

she'd mentioned a few times.

366

: 00:17:17

Like, yeah, actually I did education for

about 11 years and I quit last year and

367

: 00:17:22

we chatted about it I genuinely wish the

best for educators coming into the field.

368

: 00:17:26

I'll say it this way, cause I don't

want for them to go through the same

369

: 00:17:30

burnout, everything is put on them.

370

: 00:17:32

The expectations are so high

that it is impossible to meet.

371

: 00:17:35

And therefore they just quit feeling

so sad and frustrated and broken.

372

: 00:17:41

I don't want that for them.

373

: 00:17:42

I genuinely hope it changes so that these

people who like love teaching again, the

374

: 00:17:46

people who go into teaching go to teaching

because they love kids or they love their

375

: 00:17:49

content area or they love supporting

and encouraging kids of all ages.

376

: 00:17:55

So it's it's hard seeing the

baby educators going into it.

377

: 00:17:58

Speaker: It is.

378

: 00:18:00

I know we just nailed down some

of the negative aspects of our

379

: 00:18:04

experiences with education.

380

: 00:18:06

I don't want my fellow educators

listening to feel defeated.

381

: 00:18:11

So with that said, of course

what are some takeaways here?

382

: 00:18:14

Don't feel guilty about quitting.

383

: 00:18:16

Meredith: Don't feel

guilty about saying no.

384

: 00:18:18

Yes, not at all.

385

: 00:18:20

Speaker: You are not less than

and , this is a shout out to

386

: 00:18:23

the single teachers out there.

387

: 00:18:27

Do not feel bad saying you have

to go home and you can't work this

388

: 00:18:30

event because you have a dog at home

or just because you have a life.

389

: 00:18:33

Cause you know how many times

that I got dragged into working

390

: 00:18:36

crap longer because I was single.

391

: 00:18:39

It was bullshit.

392

: 00:18:41

So don't feel bad about saying no.

393

: 00:18:43

No is a complete sentence.

394

: 00:18:44

You do not need to give an explanation

to your principal or whomever.

395

: 00:18:49

Meredith: Several things came to

mind in my last year in education.

396

: 00:18:51

And I think this is

common in a lot of places.

397

: 00:18:55

I think a lot of school boards

are people pleasing parents.

398

: 00:19:00

Ah, yes.

399

: 00:19:01

100%.

400

: 00:19:02

Whereas, as an educator, if I had

to people please people, if I had

401

: 00:19:08

to people please in my job, I

would prioritize quote unquote people

402

: 00:19:11

pleasing the student's needs first.

403

: 00:19:15

Then as a school librarian, because I

collaborate a lot with other people,

404

: 00:19:19

I would probably do teachers needs

and then admin and then parents.

405

: 00:19:25

Yes.

406

: 00:19:25

I think would lead to a more

successful and united school system.

407

: 00:19:30

When I was talking about book bans, My

priority is speaking for these students.

408

: 00:19:35

I'm thinking about the

students as an educator.

409

: 00:19:37

That should gear our decisions.

410

: 00:19:40

What do our students need?

411

: 00:19:42

What is the best for them as a whole?

412

: 00:19:44

Not how do we people please a few parents.

413

: 00:19:47

I understand there's a lot of pressure

and there can be a lot of loud voices,

414

: 00:19:51

but I think as an educator, for those

who are in the education field, as

415

: 00:19:55

difficult as it may be, the fulfillment

comes from, and this should be very

416

: 00:20:00

obvious, but like putting students first.

417

: 00:20:02

It's a very obvious statement,

but it doesn't happen.

418

: 00:20:05

It does not happen.

419

: 00:20:06

Speaker: Not

420

: 00:20:06

Meredith: all the time.

421

: 00:20:07

No.

422

: 00:20:07

Yeah.

423

: 00:20:08

And I think there is value in that.

424

: 00:20:10

I also had students approach me

in my last year to ask if I would

425

: 00:20:15

sponsor a Dungeons and Dragons club.

426

: 00:20:18

I cannot set aside like three hours.

427

: 00:20:21

I love this for you guys.

428

: 00:20:22

So you guys should just hang out

and go to each other's houses

429

: 00:20:26

and play Dungeons and Dragons.

430

: 00:20:28

Cause it was one where I was like

I don't want to commit that time.

431

: 00:20:32

Also, I've never played D& D,

like it came to me, but I was

432

: 00:20:36

like, I know nothing about it.

433

: 00:20:39

Cute though.

434

: 00:20:40

Oh, I know.

435

: 00:20:41

But it was a struggle where I was

like I want to say no, because I don't

436

: 00:20:44

have the time, but also for the kids.

437

: 00:20:48

Yeah.

438

: 00:20:49

No, we can stick with this.

439

: 00:20:50

We know is right.

440

: 00:20:52

And it's okay.

441

: 00:20:53

If they're a little bit sad,

they have other options.

442

: 00:20:55

Speaker: Exactly.

443

: 00:20:56

As a

444

: 00:20:56

Meredith: young educator focusing on the

students, there's definitely not a push.

445

: 00:21:00

They say they want you

to focus on students.

446

: 00:21:02

It is not always supported, but I think

doing that leads to more fulfillment.

447

: 00:21:08

Speaker: I agree.

448

: 00:21:08

Great point.

449

: 00:21:09

And then for folks, I'm thinking of

a few people who I worked with in the

450

: 00:21:13

past who were more Reserved or timid...

451

: 00:21:18

I have one person in mind and

she would always say to me I

452

: 00:21:22

can't believe that you did that.

453

: 00:21:23

You blow my mind.

454

: 00:21:24

That's so amazing.

455

: 00:21:25

I could never do that.

456

: 00:21:26

And I would try to coach her a

little bit with little things that

457

: 00:21:29

she could do, and it would overwhelm

her and make her stressed . So the

458

: 00:21:32

reason I'm bringing that story up is

that, yes, Meredith and I are like,

459

: 00:21:37

Whoa,

460

: 00:21:37

Speaker: but we understand

not everyone's that way.

461

: 00:21:42

So start small, start with your

boundaries in your classroom, with your

462

: 00:21:47

students and boundaries, delete your

work email off your fricking phone.

463

: 00:21:54

Meredith: Yep.

464

: 00:21:55

Speaker: Set those

boundaries for yourself.

465

: 00:21:57

I wish I had done that.

466

: 00:21:58

And I did not,

467

: 00:21:58

I remember being so sick with COVID.

468

: 00:22:00

I thought my head was

going to explode in: 2020

469

: 00:22:03

And my principal, I'm

on my phone, I'm crying.

470

: 00:22:06

I just found out I had COVID and

she's oh, so you're going to get

471

: 00:22:08

those lesson plans to me, right?

472

: 00:22:10

I'm half dead doing my lesson plan

the whole time I was out with COVID.

473

: 00:22:16

No boundary.

474

: 00:22:17

No boundary, because it's for the kids.

475

: 00:22:19

Learn from me.

476

: 00:22:20

Start small.

477

: 00:22:21

It'll be uncomfortable.

478

: 00:22:22

You can do it.

479

: 00:22:23

Start with yourself.

480

: 00:22:24

And then secondly, I would say,

start with your teacher friends.

481

: 00:22:28

Start having conversations about this.

482

: 00:22:30

Have conversations.

483

: 00:22:32

Don't go to your department head first.

484

: 00:22:34

Start addressing it, and then little by

little you'll come together as a team and

485

: 00:22:39

then you'll say, this is what we suggest

instead of this thing or work together.

486

: 00:22:43

Cause I feel like that's what we did.

487

: 00:22:45

A lot of us did.

488

: 00:22:47

Yeah.

489

: 00:22:47

Meredith: I will, yeah, I will

say that was a good point.

490

: 00:22:49

I love doing interviews speaking up.

491

: 00:22:51

I really loved being able to pre

prepare what I wanted to say about

492

: 00:22:56

things, which is ironic since I'm

doing this podcast unprepared.

493

: 00:22:59

So very specifically, I was struggling

with my admin and they would come in the

494

: 00:23:05

library, and I would look okay because

I was at work and that is what you

495

: 00:23:11

do at work, but also preface with my

intention was I could more easily express

496

: 00:23:17

my frustration, my struggles via email.

497

: 00:23:22

Oh, yes.

498

: 00:23:23

Rather than in person.

499

: 00:23:25

It was again, like I mentioned

earlier, it's hard for me to

500

: 00:23:27

express like bad emotions.

501

: 00:23:29

Like I, couldn't really be angry.

502

: 00:23:32

I couldn't yell at my, I just I

couldn't bring myself to yell at her,

503

: 00:23:36

even though I felt very frustrated.

504

: 00:23:38

Inside probably could have cried

when I discussed how I was feeling,

505

: 00:23:42

but I was not comfortable being

that vulnerable with my admin.

506

: 00:23:46

So I did what I could do.

507

: 00:23:47

I sent an email if she asked if I was

okay I would say things like, I'm here

508

: 00:23:52

and I'm getting through it, even if it

was a little bit worse and I couldn't

509

: 00:23:55

quite express myself that way I could

express myself when I put sat down and

510

: 00:23:59

put thought into what I wanted to say.

511

: 00:24:01

And I wanted to express

myself in a very specific way.

512

: 00:24:05

And that's what I did.

513

: 00:24:06

So even though some of the things I did

seemed very brave, but I also, and I don't

514

: 00:24:10

want to say I wasn't brave, but you don't

always have to be in your face conflict.

515

: 00:24:15

Yes, exactly.

516

: 00:24:16

Finding that small way to express it

that works for you is where you start

517

: 00:24:22

and maybe where you stay, but at least

you are still expressing it in some way.

518

: 00:24:26

Speaker: Yes and then I'll add to that

little ways that you can start to use

519

: 00:24:31

your voice if you're scared to bring

it up to your Admin, or your boss if

520

: 00:24:35

you're not a teacher When you're having

those sit down meetings, like an annual

521

: 00:24:38

review or talking about your goals, or

when you have that end of year survey

522

: 00:24:43

that your administration might send out.

523

: 00:24:45

Be honest!

524

: 00:24:47

Be freaking honest.

525

: 00:24:49

Be honest.

526

: 00:24:51

Oh, I can't tell you how many people

bitch to me all the time, and then

527

: 00:24:55

I asked him, did you bring it up?

528

: 00:24:57

No...

529

: 00:24:58

nothing's going to change.

530

: 00:24:59

So that's where you can be brave

531

: 00:25:01

Meredith: can, especially in those like

anonymous surveys, I'm like, no one knows

532

: 00:25:06

and then.

533

: 00:25:07

At least you tried to give feedback.

534

: 00:25:10

If they ignore it, then they ignore it.

535

: 00:25:11

Yeah, that's fine.

536

: 00:25:12

But you tried.

537

: 00:25:13

And you don't have to be frustrated

that you never expressed it.

538

: 00:25:17

You can be frustrated they didn't

listen to you, but that's better

539

: 00:25:20

than sitting here frustrated

wondering what if I had expressed it.

540

: 00:25:23

Exactly.

541

: 00:25:24

.

Speaker: And the nice thing about those meetings, too, is like you were saying,

542

: 00:25:26

you can plan out what you'd like to say.

543

: 00:25:28

I came with bullet points before.

544

: 00:25:30

I have the images in my mind of

sitting with various principals that

545

: 00:25:34

I worked for having conversations and

you don't have to be an asshole like

546

: 00:25:38

you can be direct and conversational.

547

: 00:25:40

I think that's the thing with people

pleasing that I've discussed before with

548

: 00:25:44

people is that it's like all or nothing.

549

: 00:25:46

So people have said it's your

villain era, that's just a funny way.

550

: 00:25:53

Cause people pleasers feel scared and

it feels like you're being a villain

551

: 00:25:56

when you're being direct, but that

doesn't mean when you're going to

552

: 00:25:59

have these conversations , it doesn't

have to be a knock down drag out.

553

: 00:26:03

So don't feel that pressure.

554

: 00:26:04

But also , you deserve to take up

space and it's your profession.

555

: 00:26:09

You've worked hard to get there.

556

: 00:26:10

So yes, you deserve to

have your thoughts heard.

557

: 00:26:13

Meredith: Absolutely.

558

: 00:26:15

As a slight tangent, and I know I

texted you about it, but I'm going

559

: 00:26:17

to mention it on here as well.

560

: 00:26:19

There's a show called Lady Parts, which

is about All female Muslim punk rock band.

561

: 00:26:24

And this will not be much of a spoiler.

562

: 00:26:26

There is a main character, the

newest season just dropped, and

563

: 00:26:29

there's one of the characters.

564

: 00:26:31

And she's so cute.

565

: 00:26:33

So she's in her villain era and she

literally just defines it as I say

566

: 00:26:38

no to the things I don't want to do.

567

: 00:26:40

And I say yes to the

things I do want to do.

568

: 00:26:43

That's her description.

569

: 00:26:45

And I love it.

570

: 00:26:46

I love it.

571

: 00:26:47

I love that.

572

: 00:26:48

Oh,

573

: 00:26:49

it is precious.

574

: 00:26:51

Speaker: Which people who don't have

problems speaking their truth, they're

575

: 00:26:54

like, that's just how you don't do that.

576

: 00:26:58

Meredith: Yes.

577

: 00:26:59

There are times where I'm like,

I cannot imagine, I could not

578

: 00:27:02

imagine expressing myself that way.

579

: 00:27:04

That's amazing.

580

: 00:27:05

I know you just said whatever

you were thinking in the moment,

581

: 00:27:08

instead of putting it through a

filter of who are they gonna react?

582

: 00:27:11

What am I gonna do if they

react this way or that way?

583

: 00:27:15

Speaker: Oh my gosh, yes.

584

: 00:27:17

Putting out fires before they've started.

585

: 00:27:19

Meredith: So I, I will say when it comes

to people pleasing, in reality, so many

586

: 00:27:23

assumptions and that is what it comes

down to with education, with partners,

587

: 00:27:27

with how we are supposed to be as like

girls or boys within gender, the things

588

: 00:27:33

that are expectations in my brain.

589

: 00:27:36

None of these people came to me and

said, here's exactly what I'm expecting.

590

: 00:27:42

What in my brain I heard was

based on like conversation.

591

: 00:27:45

I was talking to a partner and they

mentioned, oh, like this girl's so hot.

592

: 00:27:50

She's hot.

593

: 00:27:50

The sporty.

594

: 00:27:51

I'm like, okay, and they think all

girls should be sporty to be like

595

: 00:27:56

cool and they're not saying that.

596

: 00:27:59

They're just saying this chick

is sporty and that's awesome.

597

: 00:28:02

As an educator it would be this teacher

did this huge event, but we'll even just

598

: 00:28:09

say for like black history month that

they do a spectacular black history month.

599

: 00:28:13

Here's all the things they did.

600

: 00:28:14

They brought in the arts and they brought

in music and they brought in a speaker

601

: 00:28:18

and they brought in the news to spotlight

all these good things in education.

602

: 00:28:22

In my brain, it was here are the

expectationss for being a good educator.

603

: 00:28:26

In reality, it is not like that.

604

: 00:28:28

It's something they found impressive,

but I think when it comes down to people

605

: 00:28:32

pleasing, it is so much assumptions

that in theory, you could go around and

606

: 00:28:38

say Are these the expectations you have

for me and they'll probably say, no,

607

: 00:28:43

I just want you to be you or

no, I just think you're cool.

608

: 00:28:46

So few people actually have this like

list of things we need from them.

609

: 00:28:50

True.

610

: 00:28:51

Speaker: They're

611

: 00:28:51

Meredith: not

612

: 00:28:51

Speaker: even thinking about it.

613

: 00:28:52

Meredith: No one has the energy

and the brain space to do that.

614

: 00:28:57

And so I think that is a

commonality in all of them.

615

: 00:29:00

And again, it's hard to break that as a

habit, but understanding this is something

616

: 00:29:06

that my brain is telling me exists.

617

: 00:29:08

Being ourselves, discovering who

we are and ideally finding a happy

618

: 00:29:12

relationship, whatever that may look

like with partners, but also like

619

: 00:29:15

friendships and work spaces as well.

620

: 00:29:17

Speaker: I agree a million percent.

621

: 00:29:19

So start with listening to that

voice in your head and saying, who's

622

: 00:29:23

actually saying that I should do that.

623

: 00:29:25

Correct.

624

: 00:29:26

Who's making that assumption?

625

: 00:29:28

Yes.

626

: 00:29:28

Did someone say that to

me or is that a story?

627

: 00:29:31

Meredith: And if they did say that to

you, if they were like, you have to be

628

: 00:29:35

this way, they're like jerks anyways.

629

: 00:29:37

Speaker: Yeah,

630

: 00:29:38

Meredith: exactly.

631

: 00:29:40

You don't need to be around those people.

632

: 00:29:41

They need to accept you for who you are.

633

: 00:29:43

Exactly.

634

: 00:29:43

Those are the kind of people you

should surround yourself with.

635

: 00:29:45

You don't even want to be around people

who are like here's what's wrong with you.

636

: 00:29:48

No.

637

: 00:29:49

We're not here for that.

638

: 00:29:50

Speaker: Thanks so much for giving

us your time and joining us.

639

: 00:29:53

I'm sure you'll be back on the show again.

640

: 00:29:56

Meredith: I hope so.

641

: 00:29:57

Speaker: Thanks for listening, everyone.