Episode 10
Ep 10: Overcoming Childhood People-Pleasing & Parental Expectations: A Conversation with Glynn Couch
"People pleasing is lack of boundaries with ourselves. When you change that, you feel like you're shifting the whole lay of the land." - Glynn Couch
In this episode of Diary of a Recovering People Pleaser , Jenny has an in depth conversation with Glynn Couch, a licensed clinical social worker (and Jenny’s former therapist!). They discuss a variety of people pleasing aspects, including the heaviness of managing others' emotions, the importance of setting boundaries as well as the true purpose of boundaries in relationships.
Glynn opens up about her personal journey, sharing poignant memories from her college years and how trying to avoid saying no out of fear of disappointing others forced her to confront her fears. She also talks about how people pleasing shows up in her life, especially in relation to seeking approval and guidance from her father. She offers up actionable advice on starting small and building the confidence to prioritize your own needs without feeling selfish.
Additionally, they explore Glynn's own recent experiences with ketamine-assisted psychotherapy and how it can aid in reshaping thought patterns for people pleasers. Glynn now offers ketamine-assisted psychotherapy and is accepting new clients. The last portion of the podcast is dedicated to explaining what it is, what to expect, and why it might be the missing piece to your healing puzzle!
About the Guest:
Glynn Couch
I am Glynn Couch, a licensed Clinical Social Worker and Credentialed Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Counselor in New York State. As the CEO and Founder of GC Counseling, a private mental health practice in Amherst, NY, I bring over a decade of experience in the mental health field to support individuals in their healing journeys. My professional background includes community mental health, substance abuse treatment, corrections-based mental health, and emergency room social work. I am trained in various therapeutic approaches, including EMDR Therapy, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), Motivational Interviewing (MI), Solutions Focused Therapy, Trauma Informed Therapy, and Ketamine Assisted Psychotherapy. I specialize in treating trauma, depression, anxiety, and self-esteem issues.
About the Host:
Interested in being a guest on the show? Email Jenny Leckey: info@meditatewithjenny.com
- Work with Jenny - Book 1:1 Reiki or psychic channeled reading sessions. Offered virtually or in person in Buffalo, NY. Jenny also offers Reiki certification classes!
Copyright 2024 Jenny Leckey LLC
Transcript
So glad you're here for a little casual conversation about people pleasing.
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:I have a wonderful guest with me, Glynn.
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:Hi.
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:Hi.
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:We're sitting in my office,
which has comfy cozy.
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:So it's just like we're chilling in
my living room, which I love me too.
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:So relaxing.
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:And us people pleasers
need some relaxation.
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:We do.
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:There's always a lot on our
shoulders when we're trying to
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:manage other people's emotions.
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:It's very heavy.
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:With that said, we'd love to hear a
little bit about your background, what
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:your experience is with people pleasing.
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:Sure.
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:So I am a therapist.
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:I'm a licensed clinical social worker.
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:I'm also a credentialed alcoholism and
substance abuse counselor, but primarily
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:clinical social worker by training.
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:And I have a private
mental health practice.
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:My background is a lot
of different places.
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:My M.O.
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:For working as a social worker throughout
my career, Thanks to my mentor, was
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:really like, do the hardest, most
intense things early on in your career.
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:So that once you find your place
and what your niche is later on.
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:It feels light and airy
and fun feels more aligned.
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:At the beginning of my career, I
worked with community mental health,
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:with people with schizophrenia and
other severe mental health disorders.
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:Then I worked in substance
abuse counseling for a while.
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:And then my biggest chunk of time,
I worked at Attica correctional
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:facility and worked with the
mentally ill inmates there.
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:And then after that I worked
at the VA emergency room.
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:So I did a lot in that intense,
quick, high chaos . High risk.
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:Yeah.
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:I started my private practice during
the pandemic because I was feeling
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:trapped at the prison, not really being
able to help, not being able to see
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:family, and just knowing that so many
other people were feeling the same way.
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:And I was like, okay, here's
a time where people need a lot
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:of help and a lot of support.
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:So that's why I started that.
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:Oh, awesome.
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:I didn't know that.
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:Yeah.
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:And then I have been doing the
private practice full-time solely
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:for a little over two years now.
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:It's a amazing I am today.
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:Wow.
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:Okay.
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:So you come with us with a
lot of knowledge to pass down.
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:Yeah, but then you also said, do you
have personal experience with this?
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:So you come.
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:Balanced with personal and
professional people pleaser experience.
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:Yeah.
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:And I think I really realized that when
I started working with some clients
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:in my private practice, that we had
those similar experiences and similar
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:views and internal thoughts about
ourselves and about the people around
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:us and I realized, oh, this is really
something that I really enjoy talking
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:to clients about and it's come up a lot.
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:I would like to have this part on , how
you're saying, talking with people.
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:One of those people
used to talk to was me.
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:As your client, of course.
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:Which you helped me a bunch and sent me
off on my journey with the therapy aspect
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:of it, married with my spiritual side.
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:Definitely feel like that after
meeting you and going through the
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:work that we did was really when I
went off the deep end into recovery.
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:We had a couple of big aha moments.
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:It definitely helps to have a neutral
person trained professionals, such
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:as yourself , there to guide you and
give you feedback and reflection.
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:When I first started talking
about people pleasing, It was a
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:little by little in my family.
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:Because it's a familial
habits if you will.
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:And I would drop little mentions about
it and then it would start to make
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:people upset because of course I'm
acting as a mirror and showing people
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:patterns that aren't very self-serving.
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:So little by little.
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:I trudged through the recovery process.
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:But it really started with being brave
and actually bringing up to the people
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:who you engage in these activities with.
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:Yeah, which is a lot of times the
hardest part for people, myself included.
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:Setting those boundaries are really scary.
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:People pleasing is lack of
boundaries with ourselves, right?
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:And when you change that and you're
trying to implement those slowly,
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:it feels like you're shifting the
whole lay of the land, if it's like
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:with your family dynamic, right?
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:Yeah.
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:They get uncomfortable cause
it's different for them.
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:And that's why a lot of times people
don't set those boundaries because
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:they're afraid of whatever conflict
that they're perceiving to happen.
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:Yeah.
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:But then you're just continuing to
neglect your own needs and not staying
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:true to yourself and protecting yourself.
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:I think with working with you it really
opened up your sense of abilities when you
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:started to set those boundaries, because
you really felt more confident being you.
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:Yeah.
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:Instead of making excuses or
hiding kind of those parts of
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:you that were so important.
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:Oh, good point.
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:Yeah.
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:That's true.
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:Now that you bring that up.
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:And like actually caring about how I feel.
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:Yes.
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:And not looking at it being selfish.
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:Yeah.
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:Yeah.
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:For sure.
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:That's a big one.
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:It's not selfish to put yourself
first and to set those boundaries.
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:Would you mind giving us
your definition of boundary?
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:Because boy is that word thrown around?
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:I feel like it's one of the new jargon.
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:It's the mindfulness of
:
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:Everyone says this.
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:And people, I feel
like they weaponize them.
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:And a boundary gives people the excuse
to be that an asshole to other people.
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:So can you explain to
us what is a boundary?
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:It's as simple as setting the ground
for what you're okay with and what you
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:feel comfortable with what you're safety
levels are within a relationship.
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:So yes, we could have interpersonal
boundaries with ourselves, but then
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:we can have external boundaries
with other people around us.
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:First speaking more about
boundaries with other people.
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:A lot of times people think of boundaries
as cutting off the relationship.
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:Or ending something or
Telling people they're wrong.
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:Really strict negative way boundary.
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:But as a therapist perspective, a boundary
helps to improve relationships, too.
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:That's the goal when I'm trying to talk
to my clients about setting boundaries.
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:I'm not telling them that in a way
to end the relationships necessarily.
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:Yes, of course I know if it's a horrible
relationship, we talk about that too,
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:but primarily the boundaries are being
set to improve the relationship, right?
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:If you have a family member or
a loved one, that's overstepping
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:boundaries that they don't even know
about, you're going to resent them.
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:You're not going to
enjoy being around them.
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:You're not going to feel good
about yourself around them.
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:You're going to want to avoid.
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:So setting boundaries of, a big one that
comes up a lot is comments about bodies.
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:So setting that boundary of
please don't speak about or make
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:comments about my body, or make
comments about bodies around me,
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:will help you to feel more comfortable
being around them once they know
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:that topic is not okay with you.
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:My boundaries are there to improve
relationships not to end them.
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:Oh, that's such a great point because
not getting into detail, but I have
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:personal experience of people who
are close to me who have decided to
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:take the other route, whereas it's not
improving things like you were saying,
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:it should help bring you closer together.
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:Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel
like maybe the fear with boundaries
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:too though, is because it does shift
the dynamic of your relationship.
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:If you're used to talking about
like hating on your body criticizing
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:your own body and that other person
has always joined in with you.
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:And then you say I'm
not doing that anymore.
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:That's going to shift it cause
you're like, whoa, that's what
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:he always used to talk about.
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:So I think people are nervous about
that tension, but that's still uplifted.
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:And for y'all to talk about better
stuff, it doesn't mean that you
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:shouldn't be friends anymore or whatnot.
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:100%.
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:Yeah.
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:My affirmation is tolerate the tension.
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:Yes.
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:That's all I say to myself right
before I'm about to say something
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:that's the opposite of people pleasing.
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:I keep saying to myself,
tolerate the tension.
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:Jenny, you can sit with it.
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:You'll be fine.
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:You'll make it out.
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:The other side.
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:You'll be okay.
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:Absolutely, and noticing that
tension is the kind of the first
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:steps of being mindful of those
people pleasing tendencies, right?
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:Yeah, there's warning signs
that lead up to the behavior.
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:In therapy, part of my goal to help
people see all those little baby steps
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:that are really happening that we neglect
to notice that our huge helps when
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:we do, because it would be, oh, okay.
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:I'm noticing my body sensations changing.
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:I'm noticing I'm starting to think
differently or I'm feeling pressure to not
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:do some, what am I think what's happening?
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:And checking in with yourself and asking.
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:Especially if you're a people pleaser
and have those tendencies, those
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:little early warning signs can really
help you to assess and think about a
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:different behavior, a different decision.
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:What are the signs for you?
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:Because I know for me, one
of them is my stomach drops.
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:My human design says I'm a sacred
authority and it makes sense.
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:My gut instinct like, oh, My stomach
cramp up and then , sometimes
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:my chest will get tight.
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:And then usually if this is a
repeat pattern with the person, I
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:will feel this bubble of resentment
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:start to rise up at me, almost getting
irrationally frustrated or angry.
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:That's how I know if I don't
change my course of action,
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:I'm about to betray myself.
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:Yeah, and that's not a good feeling.
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:My warning signs for myself are I start to
feel like a child, like I'm going to get
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:in trouble or I'm doing something wrong.
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:I need to make sure
I'm not doing it wrong.
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:Oh, that's a good one too.
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:Yeah.
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:I start to feel like I'm
not 34 year old adult.
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:I started to feel like I
don't know what I'm doing.
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:I'm not good enough to know this answer.
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:That's the type of internal
yuckiness I started to feel.
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:Yeah.
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:I can relate to that as well
in different circumstances.
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:Yeah.
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:And sometimes I think physically,
I almost try to shrink, too.
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:I probably curl my shoulders.
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:Yeah, cause there's a physical
manifestation of it too.
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:Yeah.
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:One thing I learned.
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:Or I noticed about myself though.
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:I tried to work through.
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:Is sometimes.
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:To get on the other side of the tension.
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:I like overreact.
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:I actually just posted a meme reel about.
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:This today.
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:About overreaction your response to
try and do not people please ends up
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:getting too angry or too over the top.
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:Like I like, I'm not doing it.
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:I'm not going there.
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:And then the person's
like, what is going on?
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:And it's just this fear.
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:So you're just blurt it out.
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:And then afterwards you're
like, why did I do that?
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:Yeah.
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:You're so scared of going there
again, that you overreact.
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:Yeah.
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:And it's changing so much or it's
trying to change so much so quickly
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:that it makes sense that you're
holding in all these feelings that
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:you've been feeling for so long.
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:You're trying to do something differently,
then all of a sudden it just explodes
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:and your later look back and think,
okay, I could have done that differently.
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:I wish I had a little more control
over my emotions in that moment,
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:but I learned through that.
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:Yeah.
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:And the next time.
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:Actually leading to that,
I have a question for you
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:putting your therapy hat on.
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:So when those moments happen, sometimes
I will say to the person, like real
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:time, I'm observing myself and I might
stop myself and then repeat what
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:I was saying in a different way.
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:And I'll say, I didn't
mean to say it that way.
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:This is making me very anxious.
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:How having to say this to you?
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:Is that a good thing or
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:is that covert people pleasing?
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:Because I don't want them
to react to my reaction.
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:So I'm explaining my reaction.
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:I don't know.
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:Good question.
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:I over analyze things sometimes
too, but I feel like that might
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:be covert people pleasing.
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:What do you think.
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:It depends.
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:If it's coming from a place of some
people think about this consciously.
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:Some people.
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:I would think majority don't.
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:If it's coming from a place, if I want
to tell them this or that they disarm.
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:Oh, okay.
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:I want to tell them I'm feeling
anxious so that they don't feel on
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:the defense too, if after I share this.
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:It's perfectly okay to let people in
and let them understand how you're
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:feeling when you're talking about that.
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:But that's tough, right?
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:Because you also, at the same time,
I said no, a lot of times people
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:maybe like tears happened when
we're feeling anxious or overwhelmed
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:with something we want to say, and.
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:We're worried that the opposite
person is gonna think we're weak
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:because we're crying about it or when
none of that is really happening.
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:So when people tend to be
tearful or a cry easily.
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:I'm one of them.
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:I will say I'm not crying because
I'm sad or because I'm not confident
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:with what I'm about to say.
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:It just brings up a lot of emotion, and
this is how my body responds to that.
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:Oh, perfect.
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:So it disarms them.
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:They don't have to feel like
they have to comfort me.
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:They can just listen.
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:That's good.
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:So that's definitely not people pleasing.
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:I have a feeling, the reason I'm
bringing this up to you is because
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:it is covert people pleasing for me.
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:I think it's for fear of the person
reacting to my reaction and then
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:not wanting to deal with that.
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:Fear of them getting mad at you.
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:Yes.
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:Okay.
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:Yeah.
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:Then yes.
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:I would say that falls
under that category.
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:Covert people pleasing things.
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:I think I just made up a new term.
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:I think you did, too.
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:So everyone be on the lookout because it's
a sneaky little bastard I'm telling you.
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:You're like I'm healing.
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:You're like, Just kidding.
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:Your ego's morphing in
a different way here.
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:Because it's partially making an
excuse for what you feel yeah.
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:Who cares
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:you had an outburst?
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:If they're really there and
supportive of you, they can manage
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:their own emotions and notice that.
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:Why do I have to analyze it for them?
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:Who'd a thunk we're supposed to
give people their own emotional
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:sovereignty is that, oh my God.
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:Who would have thought.
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:Yeah.
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:And it makes sense.
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:If you're talking about something
that's important to you or heavy
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:or exciting that you might have
an emotional reaction to that.
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:And that's okay.
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:Exactly.
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:Yeah.
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:My go-to with crying as I explained
to people, I was like, it's okay
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:to cry because you're literally
releasing cortisol in your tears.
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:you need to cry because you're literally
keeping your stress hormones in your body.
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:Everyone should cry.
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:They really do.
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:It's so cathartic.
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:I remember when I was a teacher, I
had this one student who was a crier
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:like me, just, letting her emotions.
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:She was very emotionally expressive and
kids would tease her and I just remember
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:I called them my Oprah speeches in class.
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:I like gave the whole class a,
speech about crying as a superpower
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:and whoever is expressive like
that, they're super in tune with
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:their emotions and that's powerful.
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:You're coming from a place of
power when you can actually
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:access and express your emotions.
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:I love that.
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:That's what I told the kids.
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:I don't know if it's stuck.
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:From the stories you've shared
with me about your career
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:in teaching, you had such an
incredible positive impact on them.
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:Thank you.
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:I could only hope that a teacher's goal.
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:Thank you.
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:I wish a teacher said that to
me and my classmates growing up.
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:Same because I had shame for crying
for probably 25, 30 years of my life.
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:Same.
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:So we're talking about some
experiences of what it's like to
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:people please, this is called diary
of a recovering people pleaser.
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:Is there a particular moment that
you'd like to share that you feel
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:is a turning point in your people
pleasing recovery experience.
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:I have two different parts
of that answer actually.
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:Looking back there's a pivotal memory
that I have of where my people pleasing
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:totally derailed my mental health.
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:And I had a mini breakdown.
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:So that was when I was in college.
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:This backstory matter,
so I'll talk about this.
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:In high school, I played lacrosse.
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:My dad played lacrosse in
high school and college.
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:So we really bonded on that.
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:And I'm just going to lacrosse.
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:That's one of the things that I can say.
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:I know I was decent at yeah.
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:So we really bonded on that.
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:He came to every single game.
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:And then I got recruited to
college to play lacrosse.
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:Wow.
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:That's awesome.
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:So obviously my dad, my whole
family, but my dad was super excited.
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:That college was three hours away.
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:I'm from Watertown, New York.
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:So the college I went to was
three hours away from Watertown.
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:He went to every single game and he
went to the majority of away games.
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:Also, if they were close enough
within five-hour proximity.
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:Oh, wow.
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:For my freshman year, I played lacrosse.
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:Unfortunately, my coach was really tough.
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:I was afraid to go to practice
a lot, afraid to not play well
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:because the wrath of what she gave
us after, I can laugh about it now.
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:But back at the time, it was horrible.
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:But I never told my dad that
because he was so proud of
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:me and so proud of lacrosse.
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:Back then I totally put a
sense of my worth on like,
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:how happy can I make my dad?
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:The summer after freshman year came and
we were supposed to do all these intense
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:workouts for the whole entire summer.
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:We were supposed to stay up on our
physical health with all the things that
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:she had set forth for us for the summer.
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:I did absolutely none of it.
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:I avoided it.
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:I lied to my dad.
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:I would go to the doing air quotes.
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:I would go to the gym, but I would
really just drive my car somewhere
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:and sit for a couple hours.
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:Then drive back home while
he thought I was at the gym.
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:I didn't do any of it because
I didn't want to play again.
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:I didn't want to go back and I
didn't want to play lacrosse for her.
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:And you know how you talked about the
signs earlier, how we were talking
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:about how you feel it in your body,
how do you know your people pleasing?
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:Yeah, oh my goodness.
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:Like playing out real
time in front of you.
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:And that was happening.
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:Those are all classic you're betraying
yourself people pleaser signs.
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:I was making myself sick.
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:I was so scared.
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:Overwhelmed.
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:So the moment that I finally
told my dad, I broke down and
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:I just said, I can't do it.
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:And I told them all the things that
were happening, I was terrified that
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:he was going to be upset with me.
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:I was worried that he was going
to say, no you signed up for this.
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:Your team needs, you.
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:He was so supportive and said, I
wished you had told me this sooner.
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:I would have never known, Oh,
of course you don't have to
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:go back and play lacrosse.
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:You'll do something else if you want to,
or not like he was the best response ever.
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:Oh, So you're like, I tortured.
408
:Yeah summer.
409
:Actually a whole year.
410
:Yes.
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:Oh, very long time.
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:So that's a big memory I have about that.
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:Continuing on until my life
now, it's still been an issue
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:with my dad a little bit.
415
:Not that he does anything wrong,
but it's my own internal stuff.
416
:Yeah.
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:And how earlier I was talking about
one of my warning signs is that I
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:start to feel childlike it's with him.
419
:I always feel like I need
to get his permission.
420
:I need to tell him my
ideas and get his approval.
421
:If he disagrees, maybe my
ideas aren't good enough.
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:And it's something with my own therapist
that I've been working on for years.
423
:Recently, there's been a
couple to other people.
424
:It might seem silly,
but to me is a big deal.
425
:It was telling you before we started
recording that I replaced the fence
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:in my backyard of the home that I own.
427
:And in the past, I would
have talked to him about it.
428
:I would have asked for guidance and
what to do and what companies to call.
429
:I didn't even tell him I did it.
430
:I would have asked him how much
money is appropriate to spend.
431
:Is this okay?
432
:I didn't even tell him I did it until
it was finished and I sent him a photo.
433
:Amazing.
434
:And I felt so good.
435
:Heck Yeah.
436
:So it's moments like that where I have
to realize, cause that's my form of
437
:people pleasing is getting permission,
making sure I'm doing the right thing.
438
:Because of my head, if I'm doing the
right thing, he's going to be happy.
439
:He's going to be calm
and not worry about me.
440
:All of that.
441
:Yeah.
442
:You're trying to manage his emotions yeah.
443
:Through your actions and choices.
444
:Yes.
445
:Oh, wow.
446
:So that was a fun win that I had recently.
447
:That's amazing.
448
:Yeah.
449
:And I even tell him though, I said,
dad, I didn't tell you this whole time,
450
:because I'm really trying to practice
that I don't need your permission.
451
:And he was like, Okay.
452
:Bad for him.
453
:Yeah, but he also didn't realize
I thought about it like that.
454
:It's so interesting how it can
be one neutral situation or,
455
:decision, but so many different
stories from different angles.
456
:Your story about the fence, his
story about the fence, even the
457
:people putting in the fence.
458
:Yeah.
459
:And it's just a fence installation.
460
:It's so interesting.
461
:Yeah.
462
:Do you think finally telling your
dad, did that trigger something
463
:in you to start being more
self-aware at the people pleasing
464
:did you know that was people pleasing?
465
:Cause you're going into
sophomore year of college.
466
:So it's like 19.
467
:Yeah.
468
:No, I didn't know that
was people pleasing them.
469
:Yeah.
470
:The year after that, I decided to
not even go back to that college.
471
:And that was another big moment where
I didn't tell my mom and dad, I didn't
472
:want to go back to the day before I
was planning to move back to college.
473
:Interesting because I was afraid
of their reaction afraid that
474
:they would be disappointed,
475
:so that's still.
476
:That's still happened.
477
:So that year when I didn't go back
to college, is when I first started
478
:going to therapy, which was so
incredibly important and helpful, and
479
:I've stayed in therapy ever since,
because I realized then that moment.
480
:Oh my gosh.
481
:I can go to someone that's not
my family and friend or parents.
482
:And talk to them about how I'm feeling
and not be embarrassed or feel like I
483
:need to censor myself and they accept me
for who I am and help me along the way.
484
:That was a big aha moment
when I found that therapy can.
485
:Yeah.
486
:That have that neutral person
. Which I'm eternally grateful
487
:to you for being that for me.
488
:I'll be recovering the rest of our lives
cause this is programming from childhood.
489
:Yes.
490
:So we're really in doing unconscious
programming in our minds.
491
:With that said, are there any specific
habits or routines that you do that you
492
:feel have really contributed you staying
on that anti-people pleasing track?
493
:I just try to be really.
494
:I know mindful is another big word
people throw out there, but I really
495
:do try to practice a lot of mindfulness
with how I feel about myself.
496
:People pleasing for me comes out a
lot when I have to make decisions.
497
:Even with decisions with my business,
there were moments where I felt like, oh,
498
:I should be running this past my business
coach to make sure it's a good idea.
499
:And now I'm more mindful of, okay.
500
:Do I really need her approval?
501
:My business coach.
502
:Do I really need my dad's input
on this when I can assume his
503
:input's going to be different than
what I would prefer to be doing.
504
:Yeah.
505
:Do I need that guilt when
I do something different?
506
:I don't need that.
507
:I can be confident in my decisions and
what I want my life to look like or
508
:what I want the fence to look like.
509
:I'm just trying to be super mindful and
ask myself why am I feeling this way?
510
:Why do I feel I need their approval?
511
:Why is that child yucky
feeling coming forward?
512
:Part of the thing was I
would call my dad and taco.
513
:I just don't call my dad.
514
:For that reason.
515
:How do you handle that compulsion though?
516
:Cause sometimes for me I have similar and
then if it was like a really big decision
517
:and I've let it build and build and build.
518
:And then if I already got the
wheels turning about being used
519
:to asking for my parents' advice
and input, how do you resist that?
520
:How do you resist picking up the phone?
521
:It's hard, right?
522
:Because it's so easy to get in
contact with people these days.
523
:So it's really hard.
524
:I usually will write it all down.
525
:All the things that I would
maybe have wanted to say.
526
:Oh, or maybe all the
questions I'd be asking.
527
:And then I put it down and go do
something different for a little while.
528
:I intercept that initial
thought with a behavior.
529
:I talk with clients about this all the
time of like how we were saying earlier.
530
:There's so many little baby steps in
between the initial warning sign to the
531
:decision and the behavior that we make.
532
:I try to intercept that even more by
putting physical distance between it-
533
:with time, with putting that notebook
that I wrote all those questions down
534
:in a different room for a few hours.
535
:Sometimes saying out loud to myself,
I'm not going to call my dad.
536
:I'm not going to text my business
coach right now, setting it aside.
537
:Distracting myself with something
that would be more helpful.
538
:Maybe that's going for a walk.
539
:Maybe that's playing with my dogs
or for me doing things with my
540
:hands really helps me to distract.
541
:Even simple things like doing the
laundry folding some clothes quickly.
542
:Those things really helped me.
543
:It's separation.
544
:That's really helpful.
545
:So I know sometimes.
546
:I actually had one of these semi adult
hissy fits the other day where I was
547
:like, I'm just so sick of analyzing
myself and trying to fix myself
548
:and always working on something.
549
:Sometimes you're just like, can I just be.
550
:So to me, that's feeling stuck basically.
551
:How are ways that you
handle feeling stuck?
552
:Cause sometimes it just, you.
553
:It just gets old.
554
:You're like, dang, I've
got to work on this again.
555
:It does.
556
:Mental health is hard.
557
:I'm putting people pleasing under the
mental health world because oh yeah.
558
:A lot of people that have people
pleasing tendencies also maybe have
559
:depression, most have anxiety.
560
:Cause.
561
:You're worried all the time.
562
:It's tough because you get
exhausted at trying to always
563
:heal yourself on a regular basis.
564
:We are human beings.
565
:It's impossible to try
to heal yourself 24 7.
566
:You just can't.
567
:You're going to be exhausted and
mad at yourself and resentful of
568
:help, treatment, all the things.
569
:I think it's just going into it
with not having any judgment of how
570
:you're feeling is an important one.
571
:Oh, that's an interesting concept.
572
:Like I'm the queen of self judgment.
573
:Just noticing that you're feeling.
574
:She's giving me right now.
575
:Okay.
576
:I know.
577
:I am my own worst enemy.
578
:We all are.
579
:We are the meanest to
ourselves than anybody else.
580
:If we said the things out loud that our
internal voices say to ourselves, oh
581
:yeah, I think I'd probably get censored.
582
:I'd probably get flagged
on Facebook or something.
583
:Stuff that I'm saying
to myself in my mind.
584
:Oh, a lot of that judgment is Putting
such negativity on it, even obviously
585
:the negative thoughts are negative.
586
:If we're saying something bad about
ourselves, but then our response to
587
:that is being mad at ourselves for it.
588
:It just continues that negativity
where if we observe our negative
589
:thoughts or observe the people pleasing
thoughts without judgment, just
590
:noticing that they just are, it helps
us not hold on to them so heavily.
591
:It helps us feel more
capable of making a change.
592
:That's a good point.
593
:Yeah.
594
:I know Dr.
595
:Joe Dispenza says that we think
between 60 to 80,000 thoughts a day.
596
:No way.
597
:Yeah.
598
:And 79% of them are habitual
that , by the age of 35, they are
599
:basically your internal programming.
600
:So you're really only working with
about 20%, but not even, I think
601
:there's some other numbers in there.
602
:I think it's probably about
5% change on a daily basis.
603
:So there's no way you're going to
stop every single people pleasing
604
:thought or any other negative thoughts.
605
:There's.
606
:It's just not physically possible, but
you can chip away at it moment at a time.
607
:Yeah.
608
:And it takes a lot of persistence, a lot
of patience with ourselves to do that.
609
:Giving ourselves grace.
610
:Yes.
611
:That's a statement I
make a lot with clients.
612
:Give yourself compassion, grace.
613
:Understand that it makes sense
you'd be feeling that way sometimes.
614
:Just notice it.
615
:I don't be hard on yourself about it.
616
:You're a human being.
617
:Oh, I have something I
want to bring up to you.
618
:I want to get your thoughts on this.
619
:I've brought this up to
you in session one time.
620
:And it still lingers.
621
:When I read this online, that people
pleasing is a form of manipulation.
622
:I don't.
623
:When I first heard that to
me and manipulation is like
624
:someone who's a narcissist
625
:or a sociopath trying to
manipulate the experience?
626
:From analytical cognizant point
of view, like literally trying to
627
:manipulate you to get what they want.
628
:Like a CIA spy or something.
629
:But then as I've pondered it more,
I'm like, okay, there's multiple
630
:definitions of manipulation, which really
is just trying to shift a situation.
631
:To monitor and adjust based on
someone's emotional experience with you.
632
:Like you don't want someone to
think of you as causing them pain.
633
:What are your thoughts on that?
634
:Manipulation is part of human development.
635
:Little kids learn how to manipulate to
have their needs met at a very early age.
636
:I know how you were saying in
a lot of people feel this way.
637
:And I think my own, like biases
of that too, probably happen often
638
:of thinking, oh, manipulation
is a negative hurtful tactic.
639
:Yeah.
640
:Sneaky.
641
:To try to cope.
642
:You into yeah.
643
:So when people say that people pleasing
is a manipulation tool , I wouldn't think
644
:of it as such sneaky negative mean way.
645
:When we are people pleasing, it's
a form of manipulation because we
646
:are trying to shift the outcome
to what we'd prefer to happen.
647
:Yeah, exactly.
648
:If that's what they want to connect it to.
649
:You're also trying to manipulate
someone's emotional experience as well.
650
:You're trying to make sure the
other person feels a certain way.
651
:Yeah, avoiding pain.
652
:I've seen people pleasers
are really funny people.
653
:So trying to make you laugh.
654
:Let's avoid feelings altogether.
655
:Let's just make a joke of everything.
656
:Yeah.
657
:And the manipulation sometimes
with people pleasing can be
658
:changing parts of yourself so that
the other person likes you more.
659
:Putting a mask on.
660
:Yeah.
661
:Yes, I can understand that connection.
662
:I think.
663
:Changing the perspective of what
manipulation means though can
664
:be helpful to not think of it
as such a negative mean way.
665
:Yeah, because I don't think people are
not doing it in a coercive, going to get
666
:you kind of way; it's self preservation.
667
:I want the best in our relationship
and I don't have the tools to
668
:do it in a more mindful way.
669
:Or I don't know how to say that, but yeah.
670
:Yeah, it's not a conscious factor.
671
:It's not a conscious thought of I'm
going to manipulate this person.
672
:It's subconscious of how am I going
to make this person as happy as I can
673
:and make this as easy and smooth and.
674
:I'm okay with neglecting parts of myself
or my needs to make sure they're okay.
675
:And then with that,
676
:in a way it does negatively
impact your relationships because
677
:you're not being your true self.
678
:I know in my past when I was in
my twenties, I was such a people
679
:pleaser and I would say even to my
thirties, as a teacher, you're meant
680
:to be a people pleaser where you're
literally told to conform to that.
681
:You lose your identity.
682
:So when you're saying,
Be true to yourself.
683
:Who's myself.
684
:I, people please so long.
685
:Who am I?
686
:So then it's who am I
in a friendship with?
687
:Who is Jenny really?
688
:If I'm not people pleasing, who is she?
689
:What are people's reactions when
you start to be true to yourself
690
:? Have lost some friendships.
691
:Yeah.
692
:But that's also my choice, me
setting the kind of boundary
693
:where you cut someone out.
694
:But I've also noticed people
will look at me like, woo.
695
:I usually get the reaction.
696
:Because I'm speaking my mind or something.
697
:And people get uncomfortable.
698
:Yeah.
699
:Yes.
700
:I guess you'd say I'm rocking the boat.
701
:Cause usually, us people
pleasers, we gathered together.
702
:So we're just.
703
:You can know.
704
:I feel like this is a joke,
705
:you know when you're in a group
of people pleasers, when the tone
706
:of everyone's voice keeps rising.
707
:So it's like, what do you want to eat?
708
:Oh, I don't care.
709
:I don't care.
710
:It's like a bunch of seagulls.
711
:Mine, mine.
712
:I don't care.
713
:I don't care.
714
:Wow.
715
:That's so true.
716
:I just thought of that the other day.
717
:It's so funny.
718
:It is.
719
:So then,
720
:you know,
721
:one of them breaks them all like
me, and I'm like, I don't feel
722
:comfortable talking about this topic.
723
:It's like a record scratch.
724
:Where do you want to eat?
725
:Oh, I don't care.
726
:You stay where you want to eat.
727
:Yeah.
728
:And then everyone's
729
:Glynn: like, uh, Well,
730
:Jenny: I don't really want Chinese.
731
:exactly.
732
:So part of people pleasing
and recovering from people
733
:pleasing is expressing yourself.
734
:And saying what your preferences are
and what your needs are, as simple
735
:as where you want to eat dinner.
736
:Or.
737
:I don't know.
738
:What color you want to paint the walls?
739
:As simple as those things,
all the way up to the bigger.
740
:Obviously bigger, more
intense issues, but exactly.
741
:I've had uncomfortable stares as well.
742
:I observed people . I was in
a group and We were having a
743
:somewhat heated discussion.
744
:We were talking about what a plan was
with the group of what we should be doing.
745
:And I proposed an idea and
somebody disagreed with me, but
746
:they were like having an emotional
reaction, defensively saying that.
747
:But I calmly took a
breath and I didn't react.
748
:I responded and I said I
hear what you're saying.
749
:And I think I reiterated it.
750
:And then I said, I disagree
with you and here's why.
751
:And then I said why.
752
:I didn't just say, I
don't want to get that.
753
:Like I had my reasons I listed it.
754
:And this person physically
recoiled into themselves.
755
:They cross their arms and hug themselves
and got quiet and just shut down.
756
:Now the people pleaser in
was then like, oh shit.
757
:It made her mad.
758
:I spoke up and now she's
having an emotional reaction.
759
:So I'm having this
conversation in my mind.
760
:And then I thought to myself, she
is her own sovereign being with
761
:her own emotional guidance system.
762
:And she can process her emotions.
763
:I was kind.
764
:I was polite.
765
:I was impeccable with my words.
766
:I always go by the four
agreements and I did my best.
767
:So that was on her.
768
:And I remember coming home.
769
:Say do my mom.
770
:You'll never guess my people pleaser
win, and it's always so funny because
771
:it's so simple for someone who's used
to being direct and speaking their mind.
772
:If you told someone that
they'd be like, what I don't.
773
:What do you like if I told that to a
lawyer, they'd be like, that's yeah.
774
:You are, you're not too nice to her.
775
:To me.
776
:I'm like, I'm a monster.
777
:No, I'm not.
778
:But , that was an incredible win, right?
779
:Yeah.
780
:In the past you would have, first
of all, you wouldn't have spoke
781
:your mind and said what you really
felt, but let's say you did.
782
:And then you would have worried
that she was upset with you.
783
:You would have apologized
for what you said.
784
:You would have checked in on her.
785
:It would have dragged on you.
786
:Okay.
787
:One of the things that I told
clients about all the time, and
788
:I've had to say to myself is we are
not responsible for the way people
789
:choose to respond to how we behave.
790
:Even if we behave poorly,
it's still their decision.
791
:We can't make anybody do or say
or feel anything; it's their
792
:choice how they want to feel.
793
:So you don't have to apologize
if you didn't do something wrong
794
:if their reaction is negative.
795
:Yeah, because my reaction would have been
to apologize and over-explain myself.
796
:Yeah, that would have been my go-to.
797
:My go-to one, two punch there.
798
:Yes.
799
:That's overexplain yourself.
800
:That's such a big one, too, that comes up
at a lot in these types of conversation
801
:of I'm always telling clients, put a
period at the end of that sentence.
802
:Yeah, you don't need to
justify or explain more.
803
:Yes.
804
:Because that is the like top three
people pleaser things is trying
805
:to manage other people's emotions.
806
:That's where I want to bring up too,
is just because you as an individual
807
:or in your own stage of growth and
healing, but other people might not be
808
:there or not even be ready to even heal.
809
:That's.
810
:their own soul's journey.
811
:You can't expect people
to be where you are.
812
:It is frustrating when you're
really wanting them to engage in
813
:the conversation cause you can see
the potential benefits of that.
814
:but you're right.
815
:You're only going to set yourself
up for disappointment when you try
816
:to expect something out of someone
that they're not capable of yet.
817
:This is one of my things that
has changed my life when I
818
:learned it with Eckhart Tolle.
819
:When you're faced with an impossible
situation, you have three choices.
820
:You can change it, you can fully
accept it, or you can walk away.
821
:That's what I run that filter through
especially with people pleasing.
822
:Okay, let's get a little
philosophical here.
823
:In regards to people pleasing, what
advice would you give your younger self?
824
:It doesn't matter the
age, whatever you choose.
825
:The advice I would give my younger
self would be that people's opinion.
826
:And I'm speaking
primarily to peers, right?
827
:Your peers opinions or negative
things they're saying to you don't
828
:mean shit when you're an adult.
829
:The things that the
bullies are saying to you.
830
:The feeling is going to stick with you
for a very long time, but truly don't
831
:mean anything about who you really are.
832
:When we think about people pleasing
behaviors, it's learned behavior, right?
833
:Yes, part of being a human is
that we care about other people.
834
:We have empathy and
compassion and all that stuff.
835
:But, when the people pleasing
becomes a problem that's because
836
:we learned okay, how can I make
everyone else around me happy?
837
:I do I have to change things about myself.
838
:Do I have to do things
for people X, Y, and Z.
839
:For me, that started when I
was bullied as a little kid.
840
:I was a little kid with red curly hair
and fair skin and freckles and glasses.
841
:Looking back now.
842
:I loved my hair then.
843
:No, but at the time,
Yeah, it didn't right.
844
:And so I would straighten my hair or
I would try to do whatever will help
845
:you to feel like you fit in more.
846
:Yeah.
847
:That plays a role though, in how we feel
about ourselves up to our adulthood
848
:too of that second guessing ourselves,
the lack of confidence or self-esteem
849
:issues tend to really be spiraled up
into that chaotic web of people pleasing.
850
:So it's building that confidence.
851
:It's, physically putting your
shoulders back and reminding
852
:yourself that it's okay
853
:that you have a different opinion.
854
:It's okay that you're
setting these boundaries.
855
:It's okay that you're trying to improve
your relationships by expressing what
856
:your needs are and they're different than
what they used to be . That's all okay.
857
:I called myself a chameleon and I
used to wear that as a badge of honor.
858
:And now I know it was
stealth people pleasing.
859
:I would show only a part of myself and
I would diminish other parts of myself
860
:if it didn't fit with said group.
861
:Yeah.
862
:If I'm with more serious people,
funny Jenny's not coming out to
863
:play, from with more demure people.
864
:I'm going to quiet myself.
865
:And how exhausting it's
so exhausting, right?
866
:When you can't be your full, true self.
867
:Or don't feel like you can
be your full, true self.
868
:We've listed a lot of things
that people need to think about.
869
:Oh my gosh.
870
:I know but it just starts
a moment at a time.
871
:You don't have to tackle every
single thing we've discussed today.
872
:You could just pick one thing.
873
:Why not just pick one little area to
start with, is that what you'd recommend?
874
:Yeah.
875
:Start small.
876
:Start with something that
doesn't feel so scary.
877
:So maybe it's starting small with When
everyone's trying to figure out what to
878
:make for dinner and no one's going to
make a decision, you make the decision
879
:of what you want to have for dinner.
880
:In the grand scheme of things, that
might feel silly, but it's not.
881
:You are building those
muscles that you lost.
882
:And you're reworking them and getting
more and more comfortable and more strong
883
:with being able to express yourself.
884
:I was just talking with a friend
today and she was telling me
885
:her two people pleaser wins.
886
:It's so funny.
887
:Everyone's been giving me their wins.
888
:I love it.
889
:And it was telling her nail
technician she didn't like
890
:what she had done to her nails.
891
:Oh, my gosh.
892
:Normally, she would just walk out of
there and be miserable and resentful for
893
:five weeks after spending all that money.
894
:And she spoke up and the person gave
her attitude and she didn't care.
895
:I'm very proud of you, Lisa.
896
:I am so proud of to Lisa and
I don't even know you that is.
897
:I think every person that gets their
nails done has experienced that.
898
:Yes.
899
:. I lived with crappy nails
for a few weeks or a haircut.
900
:Oh God.
901
:Yeah, I've done that.
902
:I've gone home and cried.
903
:Especially with curly hair.
904
:People don't know what they're doing.
905
:Oh, goodness.
906
:It's been bad.
907
:Yeah.
908
:But not speaking up.
909
:And those people on the other side,
besides the snotty person who did
910
:her nails, most people want to know.
911
:Hairstylists, tell me that
you don't like your hair cut.
912
:Why are you going home and crying?
913
:But yeah, that might seem like a little
thing to someone who's okay with speaking
914
:their mind, but that's a big deal.
915
:So give yourself those
wins, don't feel silly.
916
:They're huge.
917
:They're huge.
918
:Just thinking about that made me think of
another experience recently at my work.
919
:Don't be afraid to speak up to
your therapist about things you
920
:disagree with, that you talk about.
921
:People pleasing happens
in the therapy rooms too.
922
:There's a lot of times where clients are
uncomfortable saying something because
923
:they don't want their therapist to think
negatively of them or uncomfortable
924
:telling a story or expressing how
they feel about something, because
925
:they're worried their therapist is
going to think they're crazy or.
926
:None of that is going through our minds.
927
:You are allowed to express and say
what you're thinking so we can help you
928
:if you're working on navigating that.
929
:When a client comes to me and says, I've
been feeling a type of way since we
930
:met last because of something you said.
931
:Inwardly.
932
:I'm like, I am so glad that
they're bringing this to me.
933
:If you don't tell me that, I
won't know, and what if I do
934
:that again to someone else?
935
:Therapists, we have our own
internal biases that we work
936
:tirelessly at not bringing into
the therapy room, but sometimes.
937
:We're not going to be perfect.
938
:You're human.
939
:We still have our own lives outside of
here and things that are happening to us.
940
:When she told me what I had
said that bothered her, we had a
941
:wonderful conversation about that.
942
:I shared with her why, and I
remember specifically why I said
943
:that in the moment and I was
honest with her and told her why.
944
:And we worked through
that and I apologize.
945
:it was wonderful.
946
:Those are other wins.
947
:I reached out to her after and I said,
I'm so glad that you brought that up
948
:because you needed to; it was a wonderful
practice for you to express yourself
949
:and express what didn't work for you and
what you disagreed with in a safe space.
950
:All you listeners out there,
don't be afraid to express your
951
:disagreement with your therapist.
952
:Hey nice too, though to us
cause we're trying, we promise.
953
:It's okay to have those conflict
resolution conversations.
954
:There's so many different aspects
or different approaches to therapy.
955
:So I know there's cognitive behavior
therapy and all these different
956
:forms that you can practice.
957
:I've been really interested
in somatic lately.
958
:Like physically moving through
my energy and emotions and
959
:thoughts using physical movement.
960
:But I bring that up because you have a
unique therapy that you've been doing
961
:yourself and then also in your practice,
if you want to share about that.
962
:Yeah, so psychedelic assisted therapy
has become really an exciting topic.
963
:An exciting study that's been going on.
964
:Different forms of medications for therapy
and different and recovery from different.
965
:Mental illnesses is really booming lately.
966
:So I genuinely just really
interested in learning about
967
:how it helps and what it does.
968
:Without originally knowing if I
was going to do it or not offer
969
:it to my clients or do it myself.
970
:But that is ketamine
assisted psychotherapy.
971
:There's a lot of different forms
of it, which I always like to
972
:explain to people that there's the
injection, the infusions, the nasal
973
:sprays, and there's the lozenges.
974
:Buffalo, New York people, Dent
neurological, and some other places do
975
:the nasal sprays and the Neo infusions.
976
:But there's no therapy
model attached to that.
977
:It's just medical.
978
:You go in, you get your dose,
you sit there while you're
979
:within the Medicaid state.
980
:And then once you come out of it,
they send you on your way home
981
:- someone has to come drive you home.
982
:That sounds I don't,
what's the point of that?
983
:Like then without guidance when you're in.
984
:Yeah.
985
:Especially for the infusion part, because
that psychedelic experience is really
986
:intense from what I've been told by
people that experienced it and from
987
:the trainers that I've learned through.
988
:Wow.
989
:And there's no one to say at the end.
990
:How was that for you?
991
:What did you experience?
992
:Do you need help processing that?
993
:Cause there's a lot of
ego things, death things.
994
:There's so many things that can come up.
995
:But they just go home.
996
:That seems very weird and
unethical I don't understand.
997
:Yeah, what ketamine does though,
even in those forms - I like to
998
:describe it to people this way.
999
:You think of your brain as a plastic
hard muscle that has become what
:
00:42:19,235 --> 00:42:22,055
it's become because of all the
experiences we have had in our life.
:
00:42:22,085 --> 00:42:24,935
So the thought patterns that
we were mentioning earlier,
:
00:42:24,985 --> 00:42:26,545
those feel very set.
:
00:42:27,045 --> 00:42:33,065
But what ketamine does is it softens
your brain so that you feel more capable
:
00:42:33,095 --> 00:42:38,075
of influencing different thought patterns
or adjusting how you feel about things,
:
00:42:38,075 --> 00:42:40,535
adjusting your own lifestyle patterns.
:
00:42:40,565 --> 00:42:42,845
So like a chemically
induced growth mindset.
:
00:42:43,055 --> 00:42:43,595
Yes.
:
00:42:44,165 --> 00:42:45,605
Cognitive plasticity.
:
00:42:45,665 --> 00:42:45,905
Yeah.
:
00:42:45,935 --> 00:42:49,715
We'd like to call that creating
new neuron pathways in the brain.
:
00:42:49,835 --> 00:42:50,585
Exactly.
:
00:42:51,515 --> 00:42:52,295
That's awesome.
:
00:42:52,595 --> 00:42:57,205
Yeah so I got trained to offer
ketamine assisted psychotherapy.
:
00:42:57,805 --> 00:43:02,605
And also my therapist also
got trained to do that.
:
00:43:02,605 --> 00:43:07,345
So I myself have been receiving ketamine
assisted psychotherapy through her
:
00:43:07,675 --> 00:43:11,095
and it's been strange, but awesome.
:
00:43:11,095 --> 00:43:11,995
At the same time.
:
00:43:12,596 --> 00:43:14,276
Can you walk us through
what it would be like.
:
00:43:14,723 --> 00:43:20,473
The process is you get the medication
prescribed to you by a psychiatrist or
:
00:43:20,473 --> 00:43:25,013
a psych NP through a program that we're
linked with and the medication gets mailed
:
00:43:25,013 --> 00:43:29,033
to your home in the form of medication
that we work with is a little lozenge.
:
00:43:29,063 --> 00:43:33,583
So it's this little circle pill
that you swish around in your mouth.
:
00:43:34,083 --> 00:43:36,543
It doesn't really taste very good,
but you have to swish it in your mouth
:
00:43:36,583 --> 00:43:40,483
and the medication is absorbed through
the soft tissue within your mouth.
:
00:43:40,743 --> 00:43:45,063
After 15 minutes or so, you spit out
the liquid, and you just set that aside,
:
00:43:45,093 --> 00:43:46,923
then you experienced the medicated state.
:
00:43:47,193 --> 00:43:51,063
Each dosing session like that is
three hours long with your therapist.
:
00:43:51,563 --> 00:43:56,063
So the first good chunk of time, about
the first 40 minutes, we are talking about
:
00:43:56,063 --> 00:43:58,583
my intention for the medication that day.
:
00:43:58,583 --> 00:44:02,603
So maybe we process something that
recently happened in my life that I'm
:
00:44:02,603 --> 00:44:07,283
feeling stuck on so that I can not
be thinking about that when I take
:
00:44:07,283 --> 00:44:11,003
the medication, I can clear that from
my mind and not let that be a focus.
:
00:44:11,363 --> 00:44:16,313
Or we are really talking about what
I am hopeful that this medication
:
00:44:16,313 --> 00:44:19,763
can help me with today without
placing too many expectations.
:
00:44:19,763 --> 00:44:23,873
Because for me, what we learned
is that I try to be perfect
:
00:44:23,873 --> 00:44:25,733
at things the very first time.
:
00:44:26,393 --> 00:44:29,783
So the very first time I took the
medication, the whole time, I'm
:
00:44:29,783 --> 00:44:31,553
there laying, thinking in my head.
:
00:44:31,973 --> 00:44:33,203
Okay, what is happening now?
:
00:44:33,263 --> 00:44:33,533
Okay.
:
00:44:33,533 --> 00:44:34,823
Is this going to be something I can talk?
:
00:44:35,073 --> 00:44:36,063
My therapist's name is Jen.
:
00:44:36,213 --> 00:44:37,713
I can talk to Jen about
when I come out of this.
:
00:44:37,773 --> 00:44:38,043
Okay.
:
00:44:38,043 --> 00:44:38,673
What was this?
:
00:44:38,733 --> 00:44:39,633
Why is it not happening yet?
:
00:44:39,873 --> 00:44:40,983
The whole time.
:
00:44:41,233 --> 00:44:45,643
So now that I know that there's a
possibility of the expectations,
:
00:44:46,033 --> 00:44:48,353
I can talk to my clients
about that there's no right
:
00:44:48,353 --> 00:44:49,043
or wrongs.
:
00:44:49,073 --> 00:44:51,623
Just let the medication
do what it wants to do.
:
00:44:52,073 --> 00:44:55,053
So since that time, I've
been getting better and better
:
00:44:55,053 --> 00:44:57,273
at just releasing the control.
:
00:44:57,403 --> 00:45:00,693
The mantra that my therapist
and I say before I take the
:
00:45:00,693 --> 00:45:03,183
medication is allow, just allow.
:
00:45:03,683 --> 00:45:06,833
So then you swish around the medication
in your mouth for about 15 minutes.
:
00:45:06,833 --> 00:45:07,763
You spit it out.
:
00:45:08,293 --> 00:45:11,533
The therapist comes up and taps
me in my knee, tells me to spit it
:
00:45:11,533 --> 00:45:15,593
out because you're wearing an eye
mask, noise, canceling headphones,
:
00:45:15,623 --> 00:45:19,343
and you're listening to soothing
spa music is what I listened to.
:
00:45:19,433 --> 00:45:20,093
Oh, okay.
:
00:45:20,223 --> 00:45:22,263
It's a very internal experience.
:
00:45:22,293 --> 00:45:23,493
Oh, it sounds magical.
:
00:45:23,493 --> 00:45:23,703
Yeah.
:
00:45:23,703 --> 00:45:25,893
And then I bring a
weighted blanket to, Ooh.
:
00:45:25,923 --> 00:45:26,253
Okay.
:
00:45:26,253 --> 00:45:26,463
Yeah.
:
00:45:26,463 --> 00:45:29,463
That really helps me to ground myself
so I don't get nervous and think,
:
00:45:29,973 --> 00:45:30,903
what's supposed to be happening.
:
00:45:30,933 --> 00:45:31,953
Why am I not feeling more?
:
00:45:32,369 --> 00:45:33,509
You're in that medicated state.
:
00:45:33,509 --> 00:45:38,019
It's different for every person, but
for me, it's between 30 and 40 minutes.
:
00:45:38,449 --> 00:45:40,909
Eventually I just started
to feel myself again.
:
00:45:41,419 --> 00:45:44,419
And I take the headphones off
and I take the eye mask off.
:
00:45:44,839 --> 00:45:48,019
And my therapist, and I will
just talk about everything that
:
00:45:48,019 --> 00:45:50,149
I witnessed, experienced, felt.
:
00:45:50,699 --> 00:45:53,669
Sometimes it's exactly what I
was hoping I was going to think
:
00:45:53,669 --> 00:45:55,409
about, sometimes is not at all.
:
00:45:55,779 --> 00:45:59,619
It's really helped me not
have so much self doubt.
:
00:46:00,549 --> 00:46:01,119
Interesting.
:
00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:01,269
Okay.
:
00:46:01,269 --> 00:46:01,899
Yeah.
:
00:46:02,209 --> 00:46:07,099
The expectations of perfectionism
that I have historically struggled
:
00:46:07,099 --> 00:46:10,399
with has lightened up a lot.
:
00:46:10,699 --> 00:46:15,439
I'm not terrified of making a mistake
anymore like I would be in the past.
:
00:46:16,009 --> 00:46:18,109
I'm okay if things aren't perfect.
:
00:46:18,609 --> 00:46:21,729
If I post something on social media for
the business and I realized I was a typo,
:
00:46:21,759 --> 00:46:22,989
I'm not going to delete it and fix it.
:
00:46:22,989 --> 00:46:24,129
I'm just going to let it be.
:
00:46:24,459 --> 00:46:24,969
Awesome.
:
00:46:24,969 --> 00:46:25,239
That's here.
:
00:46:25,389 --> 00:46:25,989
It's progress.
:
00:46:26,139 --> 00:46:26,469
Yeah.
:
00:46:26,499 --> 00:46:30,279
So it's lightened up so much
tension that I held on to.
:
00:46:30,819 --> 00:46:34,509
Some of the experiences I've had has given
me a lot of assurance that things are
:
00:46:34,509 --> 00:46:36,699
okay, and that I'm doing the right thing.
:
00:46:36,699 --> 00:46:40,179
It's a couple of the times it was a
very spiritual experience, which is
:
00:46:40,179 --> 00:46:45,019
not something I really think much
about in my personal life, so that was
:
00:46:45,019 --> 00:46:48,139
really incredible and not expected.
:
00:46:48,439 --> 00:46:48,859
Wow.
:
00:46:48,949 --> 00:46:49,579
Yeah.
:
00:46:49,659 --> 00:46:51,689
It's been really interesting.
:
00:46:52,189 --> 00:46:55,369
And I'm excited to be able to offer
it to my clients and help them
:
00:46:55,739 --> 00:46:59,549
experience those things and , see the
growth and change they are capable of.
:
00:46:59,909 --> 00:47:00,569
That's amazing.
:
00:47:00,569 --> 00:47:05,529
So how often are, how long should
you be dedicated to this to see, or
:
00:47:05,529 --> 00:47:08,649
do you feel change after one session.
:
00:47:08,819 --> 00:47:13,429
The researchers have determined that
the best way is six to eight sessions.
:
00:47:13,549 --> 00:47:14,059
Oh, okay.
:
00:47:14,119 --> 00:47:14,929
Dosing sessions.
:
00:47:15,199 --> 00:47:18,179
So there's always an
integration session after that.
:
00:47:18,179 --> 00:47:23,789
So an individual therapy session after
each dosing session within 28 to 48 hours.
:
00:47:23,879 --> 00:47:27,359
So you meet with your therapist again
to talk about how you've been feeling
:
00:47:27,359 --> 00:47:29,189
since anything other thoughts you've had.
:
00:47:29,556 --> 00:47:31,596
The immediate effects you
do get from it is a boost of
:
00:47:31,596 --> 00:47:33,156
energy, which is really nice.
:
00:47:33,606 --> 00:47:37,416
For me, I'm exhausted the day of
because you just processed a lot.
:
00:47:37,626 --> 00:47:41,526
It's a anesthetic medication
too, so you are not moving
:
00:47:41,526 --> 00:47:43,056
and you're feeling very heavy.
:
00:47:43,656 --> 00:47:45,696
And I think I've told you this
before, but like also you feel like
:
00:47:45,696 --> 00:47:46,836
you're floating at the same time.
:
00:47:46,836 --> 00:47:48,756
I couldn't feel the couch
that I'm sitting on.
:
00:47:48,846 --> 00:47:49,746
Oh, okay.
:
00:47:49,776 --> 00:47:50,316
Yeah.
:
00:47:50,736 --> 00:47:53,706
Experienced that state
with meditation said that.
:
00:47:54,206 --> 00:47:54,656
Yeah.
:
00:47:54,956 --> 00:47:56,636
Where you feel like you're
going to float out of your body?
:
00:47:57,056 --> 00:47:57,476
Yeah.
:
00:47:57,816 --> 00:48:02,766
That does teach you about letting go
of control and surrendering because
:
00:48:02,766 --> 00:48:04,246
I've also quote, unquote ruin.
:
00:48:04,276 --> 00:48:08,446
Those states by all of a sudden getting
frantic and trying to pull myself back.
:
00:48:08,476 --> 00:48:08,986
Yeah.
:
00:48:09,106 --> 00:48:09,166
Where's.
:
00:48:09,556 --> 00:48:09,976
Yeah.
:
00:48:10,576 --> 00:48:11,416
Just surrender.
:
00:48:11,506 --> 00:48:11,866
Yeah.
:
00:48:11,866 --> 00:48:12,556
And just allow.
:
00:48:13,066 --> 00:48:17,996
And the thing with ketamine,
it's so different than, acid or
:
00:48:18,236 --> 00:48:20,666
other types of really intense
psychedelics, because you always
:
00:48:20,666 --> 00:48:22,796
come back to yourself with ketamine.
:
00:48:23,046 --> 00:48:28,266
Doesn't alter your chemical makeup to
where you might fall back into that
:
00:48:28,266 --> 00:48:30,366
state again, randomly another time.
:
00:48:30,876 --> 00:48:31,506
You know what I mean?
:
00:48:31,516 --> 00:48:34,336
It's the safest medication for
these things to ketamine is
:
00:48:34,336 --> 00:48:35,806
used in veterinary clinics.
:
00:48:35,806 --> 00:48:37,786
It's used in pediatric emergency rooms.
:
00:48:37,836 --> 00:48:42,596
It's the safest type of
psychedelic slash anesthetic.
:
00:48:42,686 --> 00:48:43,166
Oh, okay.
:
00:48:43,166 --> 00:48:44,426
I didn't know any of that, okay.
:
00:48:44,516 --> 00:48:45,116
Interesting.
:
00:48:45,116 --> 00:48:49,866
It doesn't suppress your breathing
it doesn't change your blood pressure
:
00:48:49,866 --> 00:48:54,456
or your heart rate in a significant
way to where there could be issues.
:
00:48:54,909 --> 00:48:57,789
Before you're medically cleared,
you meet with the doctor and stuff
:
00:48:57,789 --> 00:49:00,969
to rule out any heart conditions
or stuff like that, just in case.
:
00:49:01,406 --> 00:49:05,526
So from a people pleaser aspect,
how would this come into play?
:
00:49:06,066 --> 00:49:07,386
What role would this serve?
:
00:49:07,446 --> 00:49:10,176
How would this help us
on our healing journey?
:
00:49:10,176 --> 00:49:11,226
If we incorporated it?
:
00:49:11,586 --> 00:49:16,036
I think lifting that hard shell around
our brain that we've been so used
:
00:49:16,036 --> 00:49:21,473
to living within to now seeing that
there's other ways to go about stuff.
:
00:49:21,973 --> 00:49:23,593
It could be incredibly helpful for.
:
00:49:23,826 --> 00:49:28,176
Realizing that you don't need to
make everyone else around you happy.
:
00:49:28,473 --> 00:49:30,663
Because you don't need to make
everyone else around you happy,
:
00:49:30,693 --> 00:49:33,153
it doesn't mean you're making
everyone else around you upset.
:
00:49:33,513 --> 00:49:35,553
Oh, yeah, that's a good
distinction, right?
:
00:49:35,553 --> 00:49:37,923
Because I think when you're a people
pleaser, you think that you think,
:
00:49:37,953 --> 00:49:40,893
oh, if I'm not making everyone happy,
they're going to think I'm an asshole.
:
00:49:40,983 --> 00:49:41,313
Yeah.
:
00:49:41,823 --> 00:49:42,633
So black and white.
:
00:49:42,633 --> 00:49:42,993
Yeah.
:
00:49:43,193 --> 00:49:48,413
Where the ketamine therapy gives you that
gray in between of realizing I'm not going
:
00:49:48,413 --> 00:49:51,863
to ruin everyone's life if I don't please
everything that they need me to please.
:
00:49:52,283 --> 00:49:56,783
I am allowed to put myself first saying
no doesn't mean I'm a bad person.
:
00:49:57,283 --> 00:49:57,883
That's huge.
:
00:49:58,263 --> 00:50:01,593
It helps you to notice other ways to
get to that different thought where
:
00:50:01,983 --> 00:50:05,753
before our brain is so rigid and
stuck in the way it's always had been.
:
00:50:06,103 --> 00:50:08,413
If people are interested in
working with you, is this just
:
00:50:08,413 --> 00:50:10,833
in-person or , it can be virtual.
:
00:50:10,833 --> 00:50:15,643
If you do it virtually you have to
have a chaperone that I need to be
:
00:50:15,643 --> 00:50:18,823
able to contact because I need to
reach out to them to tell them to get
:
00:50:18,823 --> 00:50:22,983
you to spit out the medication or to
be there in case all of a sudden you
:
00:50:22,983 --> 00:50:26,793
don't feel safe within your body while
you're experiencing the medication.
:
00:50:27,146 --> 00:50:30,676
In person, I obviously in the chaperone,
I'd be with you the whole entire time.
:
00:50:30,706 --> 00:50:33,316
Virtually we're on the computer
together the whole entire time.
:
00:50:33,746 --> 00:50:36,956
In person you would need someone to
bring you home from the appointment.
:
00:50:36,986 --> 00:50:38,036
You can not drive.
:
00:50:38,216 --> 00:50:38,636
Gotcha.
:
00:50:38,666 --> 00:50:39,116
Okay.
:
00:50:39,296 --> 00:50:40,016
That makes sense.
:
00:50:40,226 --> 00:50:41,156
When I come out of it.
:
00:50:41,216 --> 00:50:44,933
So at the end of the three
hour session, I feel tired.
:
00:50:44,963 --> 00:50:46,163
Like I want to take a nap.
:
00:50:46,193 --> 00:50:48,023
I don't feel medicated.
:
00:50:48,423 --> 00:50:52,603
But just, clinically, your judgment
and your reactions are slowed, so not
:
00:50:52,633 --> 00:50:54,283
safe to drive home after an appointment.
:
00:50:54,783 --> 00:50:55,413
That makes sense.
:
00:50:55,713 --> 00:50:56,103
Yes.
:
00:50:56,973 --> 00:50:57,723
Yeah.
:
00:50:58,083 --> 00:51:01,023
So if someone wanted to get in touch
with you, all in the show notes.
:
00:51:01,023 --> 00:51:02,403
So if y'all are interested,
you can go there.
:
00:51:02,403 --> 00:51:04,773
I'll have it all linked for
you so you can contact her.
:
00:51:04,923 --> 00:51:05,643
Awesome.
:
00:51:06,033 --> 00:51:06,663
Yes.
:
00:51:07,349 --> 00:51:10,439
Before we go, I do have a questions.
:
00:51:10,439 --> 00:51:11,729
This is what I ask everyone.
:
00:51:12,119 --> 00:51:16,799
If you were creating a bumper sticker,
what would be the piece of life
:
00:51:16,799 --> 00:51:18,149
advice that you would put on it?
:
00:51:18,649 --> 00:51:21,469
Setting a boundary doesn't mean
you're ending the relationship.
:
00:51:21,679 --> 00:51:23,089
Oh, that's a good one.
:
00:51:23,639 --> 00:51:23,939
Yes.
:
00:51:24,029 --> 00:51:25,109
Can you say it one more?
:
00:51:25,739 --> 00:51:29,909
Setting a boundary doesn't mean
you're ending the relationship.
:
00:51:30,029 --> 00:51:30,629
Okay.
:
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:32,969
I think all of us need to create that.
:
00:51:33,029 --> 00:51:36,989
Put that on a sticky note and stick
that on our bathroom mirror and
:
00:51:36,989 --> 00:51:41,129
also need to put that on our phones
to remind us, so we can be brave.
:
00:51:41,279 --> 00:51:41,759
I love it.
:
00:51:42,269 --> 00:51:42,689
Me too.
:
00:51:43,189 --> 00:51:43,759
Thank you.
:
00:51:43,969 --> 00:51:44,539
Thanks for having.
:
00:51:44,839 --> 00:51:45,649
From being here.
:
00:51:45,679 --> 00:51:46,989
Thank you all for listening.
:
00:51:47,369 --> 00:51:48,449
That was so much fun.
